Diving without computers

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

An audible alarm to let you know that you skipped an optional safety stop - annoying but I guess a good reminder for a new diver. But I'm not sure that is what you are referring to here...

To be clear, "skipping a mandatory stop" = "blowing off a deco obligation". Right?

Not at all. A safety stop is recommended on all dives (optional) and is treated as mandatory on deep dives. Exact depth at which stops become mandatory is a training agency / computer manufacturer thing. Neither are to be confused with a deco stop.

 

[doctormike]

Not at all. A safety stop is recommended on all dives (optional) and is treated as mandatory on deep dives. Exact depth at which stops become mandatory is a training agency / computer manufacturer thing. Neither are to be confused with a deco stop.

Disagree.

A mandatory stop means that whatever algorithm you are choosing to use has determined that if you do not make this stop, you will be in violation of the calculated safe ascent profile and will be at increased risk for DCS. How is that any different than any other staged decompression stop? The fact that you didn't stay past your recreational NDL is irrelevant, the computer is saying that because of your profile, you now need to make this stop.

You may disagree with the algorithm, that's a different thing entirely. But if the computer is telling you that the stop is mandatory, that means that skipping it is physiologically the same as skipping any other stop, from the point of view of your chosen algorithm. That's what mandatory means.

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

Disagree.

A mandatory stop means that whatever algorithm you are choosing to use has determined that if you do not make this stop, you will be in violation of the calculated safe ascent profile and will be at increased risk for DCS. How is that any different than any other staged decompression stop? The fact that you didn't stay past your recreational NDL is irrelevant, the computer is saying that because of your profile, you now need to make this stop.
.

Well if you reduce gradient factors within the No Decompression Limit then you can say that the stops you are making have now become decompression stops. I am not aware of recreational computers that let you change algorithms and adjust gradient factors.

 

[boulderjohn]

I am not aware of recreational computers that let you change algorithms and adjust gradient factors.

Innovation » Computers

 

[NAM001]

Disagree.

A mandatory stop means that whatever algorithm you are choosing to use has determined that if you do not make this stop, you will be in violation of the calculated safe ascent profile and will be at increased risk for DCS. How is that any different than any other staged decompression stop? The fact that you didn't stay past your recreational NDL is irrelevant, the computer is saying that because of your profile, you now need to make this stop.

You may disagree with the algorithm, that's a different thing entirely. But if the computer is telling you that the stop is mandatory, that means that skipping it is physiologically the same as skipping any other stop, from the point of view of your chosen algorithm. That's what mandatory means.

The verbage is still confusing at tehleast. a mandatory is a stop that under no nonlife threatening circumstances you need to stop. exceed ndl adn you have to spend 5 min at 30 ft and 10 at 20 ft is a mandatory stop.
then there is mandatory recommended safety stops. those sound like legaleze CYA rules. All they say is that if you are one that skips safety stops then you should think again about skipping it on this dive. The odds are in your favor to skip with out a problem but this is a real reason to take that extra safety step. Still not a mandatory needed degassing stop.; perhaps instead of calling them mandatory safety stops they should call it "extra highly recommended safety stop". Safety stop is a one rule fits all. its a just in case stop. If you dive with in the rec limitations you should never need a safety stop, at least on a single dive or multiple shallow dives. Its easier to teach to do the safety stop for every dive than it is to teach about how to determine if you need it.

 

[Bubblesong]

In my mind this thread has confirmed that some (many?) divers do not fully understand dive computers and / or NDL diving. Deep stops, safety stops and mandatory deco stops seem to be combined with a bunch of folklore and old wives tales and all mixed together as reasons for not using a dive computer.

Maybe we need another thread to discuss just how well divers understand their specific computer? Does it do deco diving? What's a safety stop? What's a mandatory stop? What happens when i exceed NDL? What happens when i ascend a bit?

Yes, and right after I read the manual on the SUUNTO Vyper that I got for Christmas, I will start that thread to learn what using it REALLY holds in store for me. My husband and I were certified in late 80's, never bought a PDC, and it is my college bound diving daughter that is dragging us into the technology wonderland that, (as you rightly guessed), we did not know we were missing. My husband still thinks he does not need one, but now I have many points to convince him he does need one.
My next question is, are we better off with identical dive computers, sharing one USB cord, or is having different models, as proof against one model's failure, worth the extra accessories?

 

[NAM001]

Yes, and right after I read the manual on the SUUNTO Vyper that I got for Christmas, I will start that thread to learn what using it REALLY holds in store for me. My husband and I were certified in late 80's, never bought a PDC, and it is my college bound diving daughter that is dragging us into the technology wonderland that, (as you rightly guessed), we did not know we were missing. My husband still thinks he does not need one, but now I have many points to convince him he does need one.
My next question is, are we better off with identical dive computers, sharing one USB cord, or is having different models, as proof against one model's failure, worth the extra accessories?

If you dive together then get the same computer or do the reserch to find the same algorithum being used/ level of conservatism. with the same computer one can help the other in using it instead of haveing to remember the proceedures of using 2 computers.

 

[NAM001]

Well if you reduce gradient factors within the No Decompression Limit then you can say that the stops you are making have now become decompression stops. I am not aware of recreational computers that let you change algorithms and adjust gradient factors.

Is that not the consevatism setting

 

[NAM001]

Not at all. A safety stop is recommended on all dives (optional) and is treated as mandatory on deep dives. Exact depth at which stops become mandatory is a training agency / computer manufacturer thing. Neither are to be confused with a deco stop.

I l;ike our wording. depth of mandatory is dependant on agency, not science but agency

 

[Bubblesong]

If you dive together then get the same computer or do the reserch to find the same algorithum being used/ level of conservatism. with the same computer one can help the other in using it instead of haveing to remember the proceedures of using 2 computers.

This reason alone is all I need to convince me to get Mark the same model that Bekki and I already have. We don't dive every day, so each trip I will probably have to re-fresh how to use the computer, and one is enough!