AOW/Rescue Diver Not Respected

[WarrenZ]

I'm not a dive master however if it was my operation I would be more worried about the guy yelling about how they are a rescue diver and AOW and shouldn't have to do the checkout dive than the tec diver joking about doing a baby dive as a checkout.

 

[Scuba Scott]

An airline pilot can fly for a reputable company, for many years, pass all the training, and have thousands of hours on type. Every year a training officer is going to sit jump seat, and put them in a simulator, and evaluate how well they fly.

So is something that is done on the pilot's vacation time or would be something the pilot is getting paid to do?

I don't mind a quick checkout if it is handled in a way that does not ruin a whole day of diving or take up a great deal of time. The worst stories I have heard are about checkout dives that take up a big chunk of the day, make you miss a dive you wanted to do or worst of all they tell you need to do a dive you didn't want to do and you have to pay extra for it.

I have not personally been subjected to one of those dives but I have heard from people who have. My rule is if you treat me with respect by understanding I have limited vacation time then I will treat you with respect when you ask me to do a short checkout dive. I will also expect that due to this screening process I will not have to worry about someone who has no business being on the boat doing something stupid and ruining the dive for everyone else.

 

[Aguablanco1]

I don't mind checkout dives ... I do, however, mind dive ops that continue to treat you like a beginner diver even after you've demonstrated your proficiency.

And then there are those checkout dives like the one I was subjected to at CocoView ... where I was berated by the dive guide for hovering while demonstrating a mask clear, because he wanted me on my knees so he could make sure I was "properly weighted" ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bob,
You've hit the nail on the head! Checkout dives can, and should, be done in an almost stealth mode. I shouldn't have to pay for a full blown check out dive and the one checking me out should be at least as good a diver, if not better, than I am. No, I was not trying to say "Don't you know who I am?" I was trying to ask why a lot of dive ops feel they have to treat everyone the same way, like this is their first dive.
RichH

 

[DevonDiver]

Doing check out dives in 'Stealth mode' is diplomatic. When I last dove in the Maldives (12 years ago), there were formal check outs for everyone, run in a format like a scuba review... but that was off the beach.... and they were FREE.

One very positive thing about checkup dives is that they encourage divers to think about their actual ability. Ability is what counts, not the height of your stack of plastic c-cards, or how many dives you've logged (or fake logged.. and yes, I've seen that).

Of more dive centers did checkout dives, then I think it could have a substantial, and beneficial, impact on diver mindset.

It'd encourage divers to practice and maintain skills... and not hide complacently behind a plastic card or bulging log book whilst their skills decline and fade.

 

[sea_otter]

Since everyone on this thread is such a good diver that they shouldn't be bothered with questions or a checkout dive, I'll raise my hand as the opposite. I had an AOW and Rescue card, which I used to board a boat requiring an "advanced diver certification". I even had obtained a dry suit card and the experience of a couple shore dives in cold water, since my certification classes were in the tropics. I was still woefully ill prepared.

I had used a compass during my AOW training in clear blue Caribbean water. But that didn't mean I could navigate low vis cold surgy green water. I had never lead a dive. I had never planned a dive. Gas plan was to return to the boat with 500 psi (in other words, we didn't have one). My buddy was struggling, using gas quickly, and a few minutes into the dive he flashed his SPG at me which read 800 psi. We were 90' deep and not close to the anchor line. I was worried. I knew he didn't have enough gas to make it back to the boat, and I didn't know how to launch the DSMB I was carrying (lot of good that did). We made a free ascent, and we lost each other on the way up, because it took my entire mental capacity to watch my computer and manage my drysuit. We surfaced a good distance down current from the boat, but thankfully reunited we were able to swim back unharmed. I'm lucky nothing really bad happened, but it was a scary experience which taught me a valuable lesson. My AOW card didn't mean I could (or should) do this dive, and my rescue card did not mean I had the capacity to help my buddy if he was in trouble.

It prompted me to seek out more training with an instructor who not only taught the skills but insisted on repetitive practice until they were done well. And done well again. And again. He didn't hesitate to withhold a cert card from a diver who didn't meet standards. He offered critical feedback and the class was definitely no vacation - it was hard. But it made me a better diver. The next time I went out on that boat was in much worse conditions, but this time I was adequately prepared. AOW wasn't nearly enough to get me there. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.

 

[eelnoraa]

Since everyone on this thread is such a good diver that they shouldn't be bothered with questions or a checkout dive, I'll raise my hand as the opposite. I had an AOW and Rescue card, which I used to board a boat requiring an "advanced diver certification". I even had obtained a dry suit card and the experience of a couple shore dives in cold water, since my certification classes were in the tropics. I was still woefully ill prepared.

I had used a compass during my AOW training in clear blue Caribbean water. But that didn't mean I could navigate low vis cold surgy green water. I had never lead a dive. I had never planned a dive. Gas plan was to return to the boat with 500 psi (in other words, we didn't have one). My buddy was struggling, using gas quickly, and a few minutes into the dive he flashed his SPG at me which read 800 psi. We were 90' deep and not close to the anchor line. I was worried. I knew he didn't have enough gas to make it back to the boat, and I didn't know how to launch the DSMB I was carrying (lot of good that did). We made a free ascent, and we lost each other on the way up, because it took my entire mental capacity to watch my computer and manage my drysuit. We surfaced a good distance down current from the boat, but thankfully reunited we were able to swim back unharmed. I'm lucky nothing really bad happened, but it was a scary experience which taught me a valuable lesson. My AOW card didn't mean I could (or should) do this dive, and my rescue card did not mean I had the capacity to help my buddy if he was in trouble.

It prompted me to seek out more training with an instructor who not only taught the skills but insisted on repetitive practice until they were done well. And done well again. And again. He didn't hesitate to withhold a cert card from a diver who didn't meet standards. He offered critical feedback and the class was definitely no vacation - it was hard. But it made me a better diver. The next time I went out on that boat was in much worse conditions, but this time I was adequately prepared. AOW wasn't nearly enough to get me there. And I'm sure I'm not the only one.

This was exactly what I went throught as well. PADI training is just so water down these days. My AOW is a joke. I took PADI drysuit after GUE fundamental in a drysuit just for the card so I can rent a drysuit. My PADI drysuit instructor couldn't even get his knee of the bottom when he is not moving forward. I also took PADI nitrox for the same reason. IMO, PADI card deserve to be disrespected.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

This was exactly what I went throught as well. PADI training is just so water down these days. My AOW is a joke. I took PADI drysuit after GUE fundamental in a drysuit just for the card so I can rent a drysuit. My PADI drysuit instructor couldn't even get his knee of the bottom when he is not moving forward. I also took PADI nitrox for the same reason. IMO, PADI card deserve to be disrespected.

Again, it is all about the instructor. GUE is a much smaller training organization that has incredibly stringent standards for its students and instructors. One reason why I've signed up for GUE fundies in January.

My current AOW student took 3 tries to meet the performance requirements for the PPB adventure dive (on 3 different days so he had chances to practice) and now he can continue onto the navigation dive (then night or s&r depending on schedule, and then deep).

If I don't do that, the nav skills during the nav, night, and s&r adventure dives will be a $#!t show. I had a student like that. I had to stop his AOW and send him to a PPB class before continuing. And he never came back.

Some people who just want a cert won't choose me as an instructor. That's fine. I don't want my name on anyone's card I consider to be a fatality waiting to happen. I'm not alone. Thanks to social media, I'm aware of information published by top notch instructors like Andy Davis, Cave Diver Harry, Jim Lapenta, and others. And there are a slew of instructors like myself who may not be big names, but we do work hard to have a high performance bar for students.

So PADI training is watered down if the instructor chooses to teach that way. But it isn't if the instructor chooses to teach to a high standard.

 

[sea_otter]

So PADI training is watered down if the instructor chooses to teach that way. But it isn't if the instructor chooses to teach to a high standard.

Sorry, I didn't mean to turn this into a PADI vs GUE debate. I've known exceptional PADI-trained divers, and I've even met one guy who was a pretty poor diver despite having a GUE card (though that one was surprising). I think it's fantastic that you've chosen to uphold a high standard and take the time to help your students reach it.

The card itself cannot tell a dive op that, though. It simply says that at one time, a diver was able to meet the bare minimum standard required to check off a skill. It doesn't say that you can do it well, nor that you can do it in a stressful situation, nor even that you can still do it at all.

 

[AJ]

Well, since we started the GUE vs rest debate I'am GUE and SSI trained but got most of my training from tech divers. I have to admit that I did not know what I was getting into back then, but now I'am glad I met a couple of good instructors who trained me OW and AOW+specialty. Later on I did some of real rec training and frankly quit some of them. I did not feel I was learning anything or I was learning it the wrong way (knees on the bottom).

Good training is about the instructor who knows about diving, not about the agency as far as I'am concerned. But after the training it is up to you to expand your skills by being humble and willing to learn. Lately I did a stage training without a cert, but got away with knowledge about the skills to learn and practice. Quality of the training was top notch (GUE Tech 1 Instructor) and thats exactly what I'am looking for, not more plastic.

 

[eelnoraa]

I was just describing my experience, no intention to bring up xx vs. yy. GUE's card isn't being respected in many vacation spots either. Many ops haven't heard it. Earlier fundie card won't mention drysuit even if you pass using one. I was denied renting a drysuit. I was also denied diving nitrox in Kauai even the card clearly states that I was trained with 32%. So I eventually took up PADI drysuit and nitrox just for the access. I also heard a GUE instructor was denied renting a drysuit in Monterey by showing his GUE instructor card.