Age Discrimination

[gcarter]

I just booked some dives with Dressel at Iberostar Paraiso Beach in Mexico for next week. They also appear to require medical clearance at 70.

 

[Aguablanco1]

Apparently John, you are confused. By my reading, sealark says that dive ops should have no responsibility for health related injuries or death since they had no hand in that death or injury. And that seems to be the case virtually all of the time. It is also something I agree 100% with. You report two instances where the dive op committed, as least in my opinion, egregious and/or grossly negligent acts that resulted in serious injury or death. The California example is especially shocking since we have all been taught since our first OW class that the first thing to do in a surface emergency is ditch weights. In my DM classes we practiced ditching distressed divers weights on several occasions. How would a dive op do anything that would cause a heart attack or stroke or any myriad of medical ailments? And how could that be proven?
RichH

 

[JamesBon92007]

I am confused, but it appears to me that you are contradicting yourself here. The first half of the quote above indicates that releases do not protect the dive operator from responsibility for your safety, and the second half seems to indicate that you think the operator has no responsibility whatsoever for your safety. Perhaps I need an explanation to clear up my misunderstanding.

In one of the most famous dive lawsuits, a DM led divers (beyond the maximum depth for OW divers and for a time far too long for that dive and then refused to share air with a diver who went OOA. (The DM was almost OOA himself at the time.) You may argue that the diver made the decision alone to follow the DM and not ascend when low on air, but the jury found against the DM.

In a case in California a couple years ago, a diver was struggling at the surface at the end of the dive, and the DM on the boat jumped in to help. The DM helped him get out of his BCD without first removing the weight belt, and the diver sank like a rock and died. The aftermath did not go well for the operator or the DM (who was not current on his certification and thus uninsured). You may argue that the diver in the water was solely responsible for knowing to take the weight belt off first, but that's not how others saw it.

Whether there are any legal ramifications or not, when I'm on a dive boat I consider the DM to be the boss and follow his or her instructions. I remember one time where I was told to ascend for my required 3 minute safety stop and I still had 800 PSI left. Now I'm thinking my age had a lot to do with those instructions.

So maybe the DM has some responsibility, and maybe not. An inexperienced diver might follow instructions blindly because they think the DM knows better. Personally I give them the responsibility that goes with their position.

On another occasion the same DM told us to wait for his buoy to be sent up before surfacing because of the amount of boat traffic up there. He also said to surface when you get to 500 psi. So, I got to 500 psi first, waited at 15 feet, and he did not deploy his buoy until others began their ascents. Then he yelled at me because I only had 200 psi left. (danged if he got a tip for that dive ) . So, who's fault would it have been if I had surfaced and had been run over by a boat?

 

[TMHeimer]

From my readings about Divemastering on charters, a DM may be in trouble legally if he/she doesn't follow agency standards or acts/gives advice in a non-responsible way according to local procedures that are considered correct standards for the locale. Probably some grey areas there.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

On another occasion the same DM told us to wait for his buoy to be sent up before surfacing because of the amount of boat traffic up there. He also said to surface when you get to 500 psi. So, I got to 500 psi first, waited at 15 feet, and he did not deploy his buoy until others began their ascents. Then he yelled at me because I only had 200 psi left. (danged if he got a tip for that dive ) . So, who's fault would it have been if I had surfaced and had been run over by a boat?

You are ultimately responsible for your own safety. That means in a high-traffic area, each diver should be carrying their own buoy. What would have happened if you'd ran out of air while waiting for the DM to deploy his? That wouldn't be the DM's fault. Stuff like that is why I don't like group diving. I won't put up with getting yelled at either ... usually only ends up in a shouting match ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Nemrod]

Whether there are any legal ramifications or not, when I'm on a dive boat I consider the DM to be the boss and follow his or her instructions. I remember one time where I was told to ascend for my required 3 minute safety stop and I still had 800 PSI left. Now I'm thinking my age had a lot to do with those instructions.

So maybe the DM has some responsibility, and maybe not. An inexperienced diver might follow instructions blindly because they think the DM knows better. Personally I give them the responsibility that goes with their position.

On another occasion the same DM told us to wait for his buoy to be sent up before surfacing because of the amount of boat traffic up there. He also said to surface when you get to 500 psi. So, I got to 500 psi first, waited at 15 feet, and he did not deploy his buoy until others began their ascents. Then he yelled at me because I only had 200 psi left. (danged if he got a tip for that dive ) . So, who's fault would it have been if I had surfaced and had been run over by a boat?

You should have had your own reel and sausage.

Depending upon my mood I might not have taken getting yelled at very well. Fortunately, I have a slow fuse and it usually fizzes out before I go postal on somebody. I think it is an evolutionary coping mechanism for having to deal with heard life. Cro-Magnon man would have just grabbed him and torn his head off.

N

 

[JamesBon92007]

This is one of the reasons that I usually dive alone.