Talk me *OUT* of a BP/W setup

[Diver0001]

New to diving, been researching, and have had a lot of votes for a BP/W setup. It almost seems like everyone experienced just advocates to spring for this.

Yet the standard BC jacket is immensely popular.

Arguments AGAINST just getting set up in a BP/W from the get go? I'm a 31y/o male who doesn't mind things being a tad more complicated and plan to be a (relatively) active local diver (cold water, PNW) + tropical vacay diver.

I'm open to either. Unsure of future aspirations as I have yet to have much experience.

If you really look at it in the big picture then a BCD is a BCD is a BCD..... It has a function, and both a BP/W and a jacket will fulfill that function.

That said, for doubles you pretty much need a BP/W. Even jackets that claim to be able to support doubles do so very badly in my experience, so if using twins is an option for you for the future then it seems obvious to me what you should choose.

The main (perhaps only) disadvantage of a BP/W in my experience is travelling with it, but not for the reasons you might think. It's not because of the weight. The additional weight of a BP/W is only marginally important. It's because of accessories. A properly designed BP/W doesn't allow for integrated weights or pockets. You can add them but the only only ones I know of kind of suck. When I travel I often will make 20 or so dives in a week and believe me if you have all your weight on a weightbelt because your rig doesn't have pockets then by the third day you and your back are going to hate your rig.

Another minor PITA with travelling with a BP/W is that you may need to have a single tank adapter (STA) which adds to the weight. You may also need to have a smaller wing if your wing is used for doubles. The nice thing about a BP/W is that it's modular so it's not a problem but adding a bunch of options like a pocket, weight pockets, an STA an a smaller bladder can end up costing you more money than you might think. The BP/W crowd on the internet are so fanatical about it that they often overlook/ignore these kinds of things in their arguments about why a BP/W is a panacea for everything diving that ails you. In the real world, however, add up the costs because you'll need accessories and they aren't free.

Personally I have both a jacket and a BP/W and these days I only ever use the jacket for training. I can dive just fine in it but I like the BP/W better.

R..

 

[KeithG]

about the only con i can think of is for airline travel if you are tight on limits. you "can" get a smaller, lighter travel bcd.

 

[mi000ke]

The only semi-argument I can make against a BP/W is what I experienced as a new diver buying equipment for the first time - it just seemed too complicated, as there were too many options, and I was not sure I had enough experience to sort them out properly. Even a great conversation with Tobin at DSS still had me a bit confused (Please note that he explained things very well; I was just not knowledgeable enough to appreciate what he was telling me). My heart said BP/W; my head said preconfigured classic jacket-style BCD. So I sort of compromised and got a Zeagle express tech. Now that I have used it enough (and really like it a lot), if I were doing it all over again knowing what I know, it would be a simple BP/W. Simple being the key word. You just don't need a complicated rig. So my next step will be to replace the "deluxe" harness and all its straps and buckles and connections with a simple harness (like the old ETs had) and that will get me pretty close to a BP/W setup.

 

[KDAD]

To a new diver a bpw can seem confusing. But it is really very simple. A wing. A backplate. And a simple harness made of webbing and five drings and a buckle. There are some fine points that can be touched on such as sta but that's where the experts here or where you are buying it come in hand.

 

[CptTightPants21]

The only semi-argument I can make against a BP/W is what I experienced as a new diver buying equipment for the first time - it just seemed too complicated, as there were too many options, and I was not sure I had enough experience to sort them out properly. Even a great conversation with Tobin at DSS still had me a bit confused (Please note that he explained things very well; I was just not knowledgeable enough to appreciate what he was telling me). My heart said BP/W; my head said preconfigured classic jacket-style BCD. So I sort of compromised and got a Zeagle express tech. Now that I have used it enough (and really like it a lot), if I were doing it all over again knowing what I know, it would be a simple BP/W. Simple being the key word. You just don't need a complicated rig. So my next step will be to replace the "deluxe" harness and all its straps and buckles and connections with a simple harness (like the old ETs had) and that will get me pretty close to a BP/W setup.

This is basically the position I use as well. There are 3 camps that I believe people fall in

1. If you are truly committed to diving and plan to go up the ladder of certifications and skills then find someone who can teach you and get a BP/w from the start.

2. Committed to diving, but just want to get a back-inflate BC as a stepping stone--different factors can affect this decision, lack of knowledge on all the options for a Bp/w, time, money, desire to to dive right now.

I was in this second category. At the time of my diving, I remember calculating the costs of having to add weight pockets and all the different features. I went with a nice back inflate BC and saved $150 that had everything I needed until I switched to doubles. I now have a single tank Bp/W set up, but I don't regret taking the path that I chose and it allowed me the time to make a decision from personal experience rather than 2nd hand stories.

3. Passive Recreational Diver--this is a person of dives a little on vacation and a little at home, but just does it to have some fun and isn't interested in going to tech route or mastering the perfect back kick. They might get 20-30 dives in a year. There is nothing wrong with this person getting a BC and I would probably recommend it.

 

[Neilwood]

I think one reason for the jacket BCD still being as popular is largely due to dive equipment manufacturers, dive shops and instructors.

Reasons for saying this:
Manufacturers - keep having to reinvent stuff so people will buy more gear. Also with a jacket, repairing or replacing a damaged bit can be hard/expensive so you buy a new one. With BP&W, the kit is modular so if one bit breaks (the harness gets worn or the wing gets damaged beyond repair), you replace that bit.
Dive shops - need to keep selling stuff to stay in business so selling you that one item that will last your entire diving career (with occasional replacement harnesses or new wings for doubles) does not make great business sense. Also the mark up on jackets tends to be higher than BP&W.
Instructors - most (not all I have to say) will wear jacket BCDs while teaching people in jacket BCDs. So the first thing a student looks for when buying their gear is the jacket they were taught in because it was "comfortable" and they were used to it.

The truth (once you have came over to the dark side and use a BP&W) is that instructors would have an easier time teaching BP&W (one size fits after adjustments are made to the harness), trim is easier due to the placing of the weight and supplying the right sizes for all the group can be done with 1 harness instead of a shop having to carry a number of each size (XS,S,M,L,XL,XXL).

If a BP&W is set up right the first time (and it shouldn't take long to do), there is very little to adjust between configurations.

Wetsuit/drysuit - if the harness has been sized properly, no adjustment required.
Singles/doubles - remove 2 wingnuts, remove STA (if fitted) and wing, fit doubles wing. Should take about 5-10 minutes.
Start using stages for tech diving - D-rings already in place for clipping them to.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Okay, I will TRY to confine my comments to plausible negatives about a BP/W as opposed to a back-inflate jacket. Here's a couple, sort of:

1) The BP/W is often said to be "configurable," i.e., you can use the same plate and harness and just change the wing if you need a different sized wing for, say, using double tanks versus single tanks, or using a highly buoyant suit in cold water versus less buoyant in warm water. Well, it seems to me that although that is true, in reality many people eventually buy two plates and harnesses. I like my steel plate for wetsuit diving with aluminum tanks, but now that I am using steel tanks, I am looking at a lighter plate. Also, while adjusting the harness to accommodate a thicker suit (e.g., drysuit) only takes a few minutes, if the webbing is stiff and the webbing creases have taken a set, it can be a little annoying to adjust. I like the idea of not having to adjust anything when I switch between wetsuit/warm-water diving and drysuit diving. Not a big deal, but hey, you asked for plausible negatives, and this is all I can come up with.

2) While today's wings are very durable, even the best are still subject to "pinch-flats" that can be caused by the wing being forcefully pinched between two hard objects. Say, for example, a lead weight falls from a significant height on top of the wing, which is resting on a hard surface. (But how common is that?) Also, the tank holders or wells in which divers' rigs are retained on a boat may in some cases be conducive to pinch flats if they are not deep enough, as the bottom edge of the plate can come down on the wing when the tank is slipped into the well.

I don't think "lack of familiarity from dive crew" is widespread anymore. I recently returned from a trip to Indonesia, and while the vast majority of divers had traditional jacket BCs, I did see a few BP/Ws. What I did not see a lot of was the regulator configuration with the short hose bungeed under the diver's chin and 7-foot hose around the diver's body. At each of three different dive operators, I encountered crew who were a bit confused by how to set that up. But nobody says a diver with a BP/W must use a 7-ft hose.

I can't resist adding positives, though. For travel to tropical destinations where I'm going to dive aluminum tanks in a thin suit, the few pounds the steel plate gobbles up of my baggage allowance is more than outweighed by the freedom of the rig being "balanced" without having to use any lead. I like the stable feel of the weight close to my back rather than on a belt. You can look up "balanced rig" if you're not familiar with the term. I have no inclination to buy an aluminum or plastic plate for travel, and the Zeagle Express that I used to use for travel is gathering dust. I just don't care for the floppiness of its plastic plate anymore, and I see all the plastic buckles and things are just plain unnecessary. Now, if instead of dive vacations where my gear rides in bags on airplanes, I were to go backpacking around the world or something like that, I might consider a "travel" BC.

 

[kelemvor]

New to diving, been researching, and have had a lot of votes for a BP/W setup. It almost seems like everyone experienced just advocates to spring for this.

Yet the standard BC jacket is immensely popular.

Arguments AGAINST just getting set up in a BP/W from the get go? I'm a 31y/o male who doesn't mind things being a tad more complicated and plan to be a (relatively) active local diver (cold water, PNW) + tropical vacay diver.

I'm open to either. Unsure of future aspirations as I have yet to have much experience.

It's heavier than a jacket. That may cost you at the airport, and is slightly less pleasant to carry around in a wet bag. This is vs a standard jacket. A travel jacket bcd makes the difference that much more significant. That said, I still take my bp/w everywhere. Even if I'm paying $50 each way extra for an extra bag, I think bp/w is worthwhile.

 

[tbone1004]

others have mentioned cost, many have, it's simply not true. You can get backplates lighter than any other recreational rig I have seen. Yes it requires something like the Kydex plate from tobin, yes it requires going to the smallest wing possible, yes it requires removing one of the cam bands, some of the D-rings, and switching to a plastic buckle instead of metal, BUT you can do all of that very quickly in a plate and go back to a full standard rig very easily. The total rig weight there has got to be right around 6lbs which is horrifically light. Add that to the fact that a standard BC may not actually be fully dry by the time you are ready to travel, and while the dry weight may be right around the same or potentially less, unless you get it fully dry which may not be possible before you fly, you're carrying around more water with a bc than with a plate.

arguments against, the only valid argument against a backplate that I have ever seen, including in this thread, is if you work for a dive shop that requires you to dive something else. In that case, they should provide said rig for you to use, and you should still have a backplate for your personal diving since as you can see, no one has come up with a valid argument against them.

Ditchable weight is irrelevant, A. you don't need it. B. you really don't need it, and C. if you are carrying extra lead, the make the same ditchable pockets for plates as they do for jacket bc's, or wear a weight belt. Call Tobin, by a rig from him, you won't regret it

 

[DiverDownD3]

I've been diving a BP/W since OW dive 1. Granted, at first I was diving with a comfort harness because that's what came with the used rig I bought. I ditched the harness earlier this year for traditional webbing. I couldn't be happier and realized the "comfort" harness does absolutely nothing. I did a lot of research on here and bought into most concepts of a DIR diver. With the help of my mentor, I have really streamlined my setup and I can tell a difference with my air consumption (note, I do realize it also has some to do with me getting more experience).

I think getting a mentor was one of the best things I ever did.

In my opinion if you go jacket, there is nothing wrong with that. You should dive what you feel comfortable in and what works for the type of diving you are going to do.