Major Freak Out - What should I have done differently?

[scoobajay]

Since I have no knowledge of Cueva del Agua, I'll refrain from any comparison with Devil's Throat.

This brings up the whole question of where one is to draw the line between classifying something as a "swim-through" and classifying something as a "coral cavern" (or even "cave"), which has been discussed in previous SB threads. I know where I draw it, but that's a personal decision.

I think I know where I draw the line now as well

 

[redacted]

I think I know where I draw the line now as well

Well, that is a start but you also have to figure out how to use your "line" without causing problems for other divers. You can not swim up to the entry of a swim-through and make your decision. The DMs, your buddy, and folks behind you may not be able to deal with that.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Well, that is a start but you also have to figure out how to use your "line" without causing problems for other divers. You can not swim up to the entry of a swim-through and make your decision. The DMs, your buddy, and folks behind you may not be able to deal with that.

Often you can. I've done it in Cozumel. Before the dive begins, my buddy and I tell the DM that we may choose to go around any swim-through that we don't feel comfortable with, and we will attempt to follow the bubble trail. I think that is not uncommon in Cozumel.

 

[Dirty-Dog]

Well, that is a start but you also have to figure out how to use your "line" without causing problems for other divers. You can not swim up to the entry of a swim-through and make your decision. The DMs, your buddy, and folks behind you may not be able to deal with that.

I think you can, actually. A certified diver should be able to say "Nope, not going in there" and then make an appropriate alteration to the plan.
When Kim first joined us, she didn't like swim throughs. Kim didn't know either, until the first time she encountered something that was more than just an archway. No problem. Sue went through with the group. People behind us went through. I stayed with Kim and we rejoined the group on the other side. That's how we did it until Kim got a bit more comfortable with the enclosed spaces. Now she enjoys them, and has done the Throat (twice) as well as a couple of Cenote tours.

 

[redacted]

I think you can, actually. A certified diver should be able to say "Nope, not going in there" and then make an appropriate alteration to the plan.
When Kim first joined us, she didn't like swim throughs. Kim didn't know either, until the first time she encountered something that was more than just an archway. No problem. Sue went through with the group. People behind us went through. I stayed with Kim and we rejoined the group on the other side. That's how we did it until Kim got a bit more comfortable with the enclosed spaces. Now she enjoys them, and has done the Throat (twice) as well as a couple of Cenote tours.

Well, of course you can. But to plan to do it without regard for other divers is just rude.

I don't do swim-throughs any more. I advise the DM and the other divers and I stay out of the way as other divers enter the swim-through. Planning to swim up to the entry, take a peek, and make the decision is likely to unnecessarily screw up other divers.

I have watched divers decide at the last second to not do a swim-through. By the time they made up their mind and backed out, the following divers were no longer able to find the line of divers who had entered. It sometimes happens with inexperienced divers. But if a diver is going to plan that last second decision, they need to let other know before the dive and then be last going in. It is just consideration for others.

 

[abscuba]

I have not been on this dive so I am only going off the story, but 20mins in is no longer a swim through that is an overhead environment. There are many buzz words that make me cringe when a diver says it was "tight" or looking into "blackness". This means divers are going to places they shouldn't be. There is a reason recreational diving and technical diving are separate, part if it is training and equipment the other part is comfort in the water. Again I have not been on this dive but from the description it sounds like the DM should not have been taking any one in there 20min is not a swim through. You made the right call if you weren't comfortable then turn the dive around. Yeah SMB and light are important to have but to do overhead environments you need more than that. Every year people get over there head in overhead environments get lost or panic and drown because they didn't realize the danger they can hold.

 

[Dirty-Dog]

Well, of course you can. But to plan to do it without regard for other divers is just rude.

I don't do swim-throughs any more. I advise the DM and the other divers and I stay out of the way as other divers enter the swim-through. Planning to swim up to the entry, take a peek, and make the decision is likely to unnecessarily screw up other divers.

I have watched divers decide at the last second to not do a swim-through. By the time they made up their mind and backed out, the following divers were no longer able to find the line of divers who had entered. It sometimes happens with inexperienced divers. But if a diver is going to plan that last second decision, they need to let other know before the dive and then be last going in. It is just consideration for others.

How would it screw up other divers? And what's to find? It's a swim through, not a maze... Sure, it's courteous to not block the entry while you're deciding. But I habitually hang at the rear of any group, and it has never bothered me in the slightest to wait while someone peeks before they go in. It does bug me a little when the people in front scissor kick their way through and silt it up, but there's enough flow in most that this isn't a huge issue. I just leave a gap between me and the people in front of me.
I just don't really see this as being a problem.

I have not been on this dive so I am only going off the story, but 20mins in is no longer a swim through that is an overhead environment. There are many buzz words that make me cringe when a diver says it was "tight" or looking into "blackness". This means divers are going to places they shouldn't be. There is a reason recreational diving and technical diving are separate, part if it is training and equipment the other part is comfort in the water. Again I have not been on this dive but from the description it sounds like the DM should not have been taking any one in there 20min is not a swim through. You made the right call if you weren't comfortable then turn the dive around. Yeah SMB and light are important to have but to do overhead environments you need more than that. Every year people get over there head in overhead environments get lost or panic and drown because they didn't realize the danger they can hold.

The Devils Throat is not particularly tight, as evidenced by the OPs ability to turn around in it, and swim past other divers to get back to the entrance. Nor is it black. Dark, yes, but it's not black. Lots of people don't even use lights, although I do, simply because I don't see the point of going in if I can't clearly see the stuff inside. If I wanted to dive blind, I'd stop using a prescription mask... But lights (while being a good idea) are not required for finding your way through.
Being in a near-panic state will absolutely affect judgement, and no doubt contributes to the description being given.
And you'd have to be going really slow to spend 20 minutes in the Throat. While I've never measured it, I'd say the tunnel is maybe 60 feet end to end. As you can see in this video, it is not particularly tight. And although the diver is using a light, there are quite a few openings to let in light.
[video=youtube;8ECFvuLBUNA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ECFvuLBUNA[/video]

 

[FinnMom]

But if a diver is going to plan that last second decision, they need to let other know before the dive and then be last going in. It is just consideration for others.





How would I know I will feel this way at the last minute? With baggage restrictions these days and the rough handling stuff gets, I just can't take my crystal ball everywhere with me.

A diver has the right to thumb the dive, period. It might be inconvenient for others, but it is no where near as inconvenient, let alone downright dangerous as a panicked diver.

You don't need to on the verge of panic to have the right to backtrack, or completely thumb a dive. One of the really big things you should learn from diving is that if you ever feel you hear an angel whispering in your ear, stop, listen carefully, and obey. Believe that bad things do happen on simple dives and sunny days to ordinary people. Respect your doubts.

 

[abscuba]

This is the problem with restrictive environments and why TDI even added a dive master course for overhead environments (caves). A panicked diver in an overhead environment is supposed to let the DM who is in the environment know meaning they have to go farther into the place that is making them panicked. A diver should let others know, but if you put them in a situation where that would only make the panic worse you have put them between a rock and a hard place. A good idea might be to have a guide leading and one in the rear for just such a situation. It is hard to fault a diver that is put in a position beyond their limits, it would be the same as strapping my rebreather to him and faulting him for letting the ppo2 spike. We can learn a lot from this thread as this seems to be a very grey area as it can be dove by recreational divers, but how to we deal with a diver who becomes panicked in such a place.

 

[scoobajay]

Well, of course you can. But to plan to do it without regard for other divers is just rude.

I don't do swim-throughs any more. I advise the DM and the other divers and I stay out of the way as other divers enter the swim-through. Planning to swim up to the entry, take a peek, and make the decision is likely to unnecessarily screw up other divers.

I have watched divers decide at the last second to not do a swim-through. By the time they made up their mind and backed out, the following divers were no longer able to find the line of divers who had entered. It sometimes happens with inexperienced divers. But if a diver is going to plan that last second decision, they need to let other know before the dive and then be last going in. It is just consideration for others.

AWAP, I appreciate your input but I have to say this "peer pressure" to keep up with the group (whether imagined or real) might have been something that contributed to my poor judgement and indecision in this matter. While underwater making all of these decisions I was heavily influenced by my horror that I "screwed up other divers".

While diving with a group certainly requires a consideration for others, endangering my own life in attempt not to be rude seems a little...obsequious?? Especially considering I had no problem with swim-throughs prior to this moment and had no way of knowing as I came to the entrance how freaked out this one in particular was going to make me. It was certainly never my "plan" to go and check it out and then decide whether or not I would panic and swim around the ocean by myself or go ahead with the swim through