Buddies kept grabbing/pulling me to ascend faster than computer said was safe

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

The other diver should have never physically touched you. If they were that concerned, they could have watched and waited. Even if you were ascending slowly you will still ascending.

I always make a point to come up slowly. That said, I still find a way to set off the ascent rate alarm. The settings are just too conservative.
 
The other diver should have never physically touched you. If they were that concerned, they could have watched and waited.

Physical touch is a primary means of initiating communications UW. You might even consider it the equivalent of "pardon me" on the surface. But there is a big difference between a touch to get attention and grabbing and moving another diver.

There is no good reason to ascend excessively slowly during the initial ascent from a 90 ft dive and that seems to be what the OP did.
 
If they were so advanced and thought you were narc'd at depth, then they should have been advanced enough to know that ascending a short distance would relieve the symptoms.

Also, the idea of loading more nitrogen as you ascend slowly doesn't sit right with me. As you ascend, the partial pressure of nitrogen in the gas you are breathing goes down. Your tissue should contain a higher partial pressure then what you are breathing. Therefore, you can't load anymore nitrogen because it is always trying to equalize the tissue load with what you are breathing. I also have the Luna and if you look at your "No-Stop" time, it dramatically increases as you ascend. So I'm not sure where the idea of increased nitrogen load on an extremely slow ascent comes from.

Let me also say that I am not a doctor. If one can show me the math on the nitrogen loading, I will admit my ignorance. But it goes against everything we are taught about Henry's Law.
 
I have never heard of "too" slow. Computers can malfunction - that is true - however if all it wanted was you to slow up why not slow up? If you ascend too fast the computer would penalise you on the next dive.

I always make a point to come up slowly. That said, I still find a way to set off the ascent rate alarm. The settings are just too conservative.

How slow?

Research supports 30 FPM as a generally accepted safe rate. Most computers use that as the planned ascent rate, as do most decompression software programs. As people have noted earlier in the thread, a fast ascent warning in your computer log is meaningless. It could have happened that you exceeded that rate for a few seconds during an otherwise very slow ascent. Yes, there is such a thing as too slow. The rate you ascend has to be a balance between off-gassing tissues safely while at the same time the slower tissues are still on-gassing. Ascend too slowly and you add to your decompression obligations more than you benefit from the off-gassing of the faster tissues.

This past weekend I was instructing a bunch of students in several different classes. It included some DM candidates, whom I had lead the ascents on several dives. The first time we did it, the ascent from about 70 feet to the safety stop took nearly 5 minutes, an ascent rate of about 12 FPM. That is about a third of what is usually considered the ideal rate. We talked about it, and on the next dive the ascent time was reduced to about 4 minutes--roughly 15 FPM. They eventually were able to force themselves to bring us up at what seemed to them to be a screamingly fast 20 FPM.

A few years ago two of my friends got bent on a decompression dive for which they were using computers in gauge mode, having been taught to use "the computers between their ears" instead of computer algorithms. They began their ascent according to plan. When they reached their first deep stop, which should have taken less than a minute, they began to follow their plan of a specific number of minutes at each of the following stops. They did not notice that their ascent to that first stop had taken them about 4 minutes--much, much slower than their plan called for. They discovered that when they downloaded the dive data from the computers that were in gauge mode. They were trying to figure out why they got bent on that dive.

A few months ago I was with a group of divers doing decompression dives off of a boat in Florida. Each of the groups had roughly the same dive plans calling for a total run time of about 70 minutes. Everyone but one group was on the boat long before the last group surfaced, a group that had started up the ascent line the same time that my group did. They said they could not understand it--when they started up the line, their computers indicated that they would have the planned 70 minute dive. When they got to their first stop, though, both of their computers had them doing a more than 80 minute dive, with extended decompression stops. I had no trouble understanding it. Even though we started up the line at the same time and had our first stops at the same depth, when I got to that stop they were not in sight. I had completed several stops by the time their slow creep up the line had gotten them to the first stop. While they were ascending far too slowly, their computers were correctly interpreting the ascent as continued bottom time and adding decompression time to the coming stops.

I firmly believe that a lot of people understand that they are supposed to do a slow ascent, but they take that warning far too far.
 
If they were so advanced and thought you were narc'd at depth, then they should have been advanced enough to know that ascending a short distance would relieve the symptoms.

Also, the idea of loading more nitrogen as you ascend slowly doesn't sit right with me. As you ascend, the partial pressure of nitrogen in the gas you are breathing goes down. Your tissue should contain a higher partial pressure then what you are breathing. Therefore, you can't load anymore nitrogen because it is always trying to equalize the tissue load with what you are breathing. I also have the Luna and if you look at your "No-Stop" time, it dramatically increases as you ascend. So I'm not sure where the idea of increased nitrogen load on an extremely slow ascent comes from.

Let me also say that I am not a doctor. If one can show me the math on the nitrogen loading, I will admit my ignorance. But it goes against everything we are taught about Henry's Law.

One need not admit ignorance once it has been adequately demonstrated. How does the concept of "half-life" fit into your knowledge of gas loading?
 
. . .
Also, the idea of loading more nitrogen as you ascend slowly doesn't sit right with me. As you ascend, the partial pressure of nitrogen in the gas you are breathing goes down. Your tissue should contain a higher partial pressure then what you are breathing. Therefore, you can't load anymore nitrogen because it is always trying to equalize the tissue load with what you are breathing. I also have the Luna and if you look at your "No-Stop" time, it dramatically increases as you ascend. So I'm not sure where the idea of increased nitrogen load on an extremely slow ascent comes from.
. . .

It comes from the theory that there are different compartments that on-gas and off-gas at different halftime rates, and so there should be a ceiling (depth) at which a given compartment changes from an ongassing state to an offgassing state. Each compartment is different. So while some compartments might be offgassing throughout most of an ascent, another compartment might still be ongassing until its offgassing ceiling depth is reached.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. (As though I need to add that!)
 
If they were so advanced and thought you were narc'd at depth, then they should have been advanced enough to know that ascending a short distance would relieve the symptoms.

Also, the idea of loading more nitrogen as you ascend slowly doesn't sit right with me. As you ascend, the partial pressure of nitrogen in the gas you are breathing goes down. Your tissue should contain a higher partial pressure then what you are breathing. Therefore, you can't load anymore nitrogen because it is always trying to equalize the tissue load with what you are breathing. I also have the Luna and if you look at your "No-Stop" time, it dramatically increases as you ascend. So I'm not sure where the idea of increased nitrogen load on an extremely slow ascent comes from.

Let me also say that I am not a doctor. If one can show me the math on the nitrogen loading, I will admit my ignorance. But it goes against everything we are taught about Henry's Law.

when you first start ascending from your max depth, you will still be ongassing (i.e. the partial pressure of nitrogen in the gas you are breathing is greater than in your tissues). Eventually, you will cross a threshold where the nitrogen in your tissues is greater, and then you start offgassing. So, it is important not to dilly dally at the initial part of your ascent, but during the rest of the ascent especially near the safety stop, there is nothing wrong with going a bit slower.
 
Also, the idea of loading more nitrogen as you ascend slowly doesn't sit right with me. As you ascend, the partial pressure of nitrogen in the gas you are breathing goes down. Your tissue should contain a higher partial pressure then what you are breathing. Therefore, you can't load anymore nitrogen because it is always trying to equalize the tissue load with what you are breathing. I also have the Luna and if you look at your "No-Stop" time, it dramatically increases as you ascend. So I'm not sure where the idea of increased nitrogen load on an extremely slow ascent comes from.

Let me also say that I am not a doctor. If one can show me the math on the nitrogen loading, I will admit my ignorance. But it goes against everything we are taught about Henry's Law.

Here is where you are wrong. There are many tissues in your body, and they absorb and release nitrogen at different rates. When you ascend, the tissues that absorb tissues the fastest will begin to off-gas, but the tissues that absorb nitrogen more slowly will still have a lower pressure than what you are breathing and will continue to on-gas.
 
Also, the idea of loading more nitrogen as you ascend slowly doesn't sit right with me. As you ascend, the partial pressure of nitrogen in the gas you are breathing goes down. Your tissue should contain a higher partial pressure then what you are breathing. Therefore, you can't load anymore nitrogen because it is always trying to equalize the tissue load with what you are breathing. I also have the Luna and if you look at your "No-Stop" time, it dramatically increases as you ascend. So I'm not sure where the idea of increased nitrogen load on an extremely slow ascent comes from.

This is actually one of the main critiques of the "deep stop" approach. It's beyond the scope of this thread, but you actually are ongassing some compartments during ascent, since not all of the tissue compartments are fully saturated during most dives. There's more to the controversy than that, so probably not necessary to derail the discussion.

---------- Post added April 27th, 2015 at 01:06 PM ----------

Wow, that's what I get for snoozing. I was the fifth one to answer!
 
Doesn't that kind of go against decompression theory? The slowest ascent you can make is a stop. And don't people make stops to off-gas?

I get the whole idea of different tissue loads and unloads at different rates. But the ones that are slow to load and unload also won't have as much nitrogen in them.

My understanding is that you can't add a lower partial pressure of nitrogen that has a higher partial pressure. I can go along with the instant you make your ascent you may take on a little more but that should quickly reverse. So my thinking is that you can't ascend too slow unless you only have a couple seconds before your no-deco time is up and you can't get to a shallower depth before you go into deco.

I really want to understand this as it is very interesting to me. So, please don't think I am trolling or starting an argument.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

Back
Top Bottom