Why is a Jacket BC better than a BP/W?
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When you're ascending in horizontal trim, your shoulders are slightly higher than your butt dump.
In a Jacket BC you can dump air from the shoulder dump without ever having to do a butt tilt.
It is easily sizable, easily familiarable. Anyone who has worn a backpack knows how to resize a Jacket BC. Your older or less intuitive folks will not be able to resize a backplate without some training. So for this, it makes this system easier for rentals.
With Jacket's the top of the bladder distribution is near your shoulders. Bp/W, it's near the back of your head. There is also room for a larger amount of volume of air at the top of a Wing than at the top of a Jacket bladder.
When you go from horizontal to vertical, your Wing/Bladder pivot at your waist, not at your midsection. So this effectively lifts the top of your Wing/Bladder 3 ft in depth.
With the Wing, all that air hits the top and puts you at a runaway ascent. I discovered this when I started taking many new friends out on their first Bp/W shakedown dives. They would cork rapidly to the surface on their safety stops because they were vertical divers during hovers and they weren't fast on their inflator hose or intuitive enough on when to get output from their BC.
Jacket BC's are more forgiving to this because the air can't bubble way up to the top, it is more spread down because of the bladder restrictions. You still will often go into a runaway ascent in this situation but you have more time to react in a Jacket before you ascend several feet.
I prefer Bp/W's as well, but there are it's shortcomings for new divers.
In a Jacket BC you can dump air from the shoulder dump without ever having to do a butt tilt.
It is easily sizable, easily familiarable. Anyone who has worn a backpack knows how to resize a Jacket BC. Your older or less intuitive folks will not be able to resize a backplate without some training. So for this, it makes this system easier for rentals.
With Jacket's the top of the bladder distribution is near your shoulders. Bp/W, it's near the back of your head. There is also room for a larger amount of volume of air at the top of a Wing than at the top of a Jacket bladder.
When you go from horizontal to vertical, your Wing/Bladder pivot at your waist, not at your midsection. So this effectively lifts the top of your Wing/Bladder 3 ft in depth.
With the Wing, all that air hits the top and puts you at a runaway ascent. I discovered this when I started taking many new friends out on their first Bp/W shakedown dives. They would cork rapidly to the surface on their safety stops because they were vertical divers during hovers and they weren't fast on their inflator hose or intuitive enough on when to get output from their BC.
Jacket BC's are more forgiving to this because the air can't bubble way up to the top, it is more spread down because of the bladder restrictions. You still will often go into a runaway ascent in this situation but you have more time to react in a Jacket before you ascend several feet.
I prefer Bp/W's as well, but there are it's shortcomings for new divers.
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what frustrates me most with these discussions is how bp/w always seems to refer to one-piece harness with hard backplate. When you take that out of the discussion and add something like the transpac back in, the jacket bc loses all of it's pros. I can't imagine this cork scenario if they were trained properly to begin with and were actually neutral at said safety stop, but not going into that argument.
Basically the few comfort things that a jacket has over a one piece harness are eliminated with either a transplate, or with a transpac. I have an older transpac with a travel wing that can get thrown over a single tank just as easily as any stab jacket but is much more stable because the tank is high enough up that you can safely reach the valve *a huge problem with most jacket bc's and it is a very real safety concern*, and with the two cam bands it is much more stable.
Problem with jackets, they are not modular. Get a hole in your jacket bladder and you're SOL
Basically the few comfort things that a jacket has over a one piece harness are eliminated with either a transplate, or with a transpac. I have an older transpac with a travel wing that can get thrown over a single tank just as easily as any stab jacket but is much more stable because the tank is high enough up that you can safely reach the valve *a huge problem with most jacket bc's and it is a very real safety concern*, and with the two cam bands it is much more stable.
Problem with jackets, they are not modular. Get a hole in your jacket bladder and you're SOL
Eric Sedletzky
Contributor
Jacket BC's gained popularity because of ease of setup, comfort trying them on in the dive shop, and all the cool colors used in the styling.
When they did a big push back in the early 80's to open up scuba to everyone and try and really grow the sport the jacket was one of the things that sold it to everyone. No more was diving just a bare bones plastic moulded backpack with a few straps.
That philosophy still holds today.
Jackets are easier for shops to sell, there's no sizing issues, markup is higher, profit margins are higher, most or all jackets are made overseas so manufacturing costs are very low, as compared to BP/W it looks like you are getting a lot more for your money with the jacket just because of the complexity of some of them, plus the integrated weights are easier for people to deal with.
Beginner don't know what they don't know. Dive shops count on this, or most dive shops don't know the first thing about BP/W themselves.
I don't see any changes anytime soon.
I'm a die hard BP/W fan myself.
When they did a big push back in the early 80's to open up scuba to everyone and try and really grow the sport the jacket was one of the things that sold it to everyone. No more was diving just a bare bones plastic moulded backpack with a few straps.
That philosophy still holds today.
Jackets are easier for shops to sell, there's no sizing issues, markup is higher, profit margins are higher, most or all jackets are made overseas so manufacturing costs are very low, as compared to BP/W it looks like you are getting a lot more for your money with the jacket just because of the complexity of some of them, plus the integrated weights are easier for people to deal with.
Beginner don't know what they don't know. Dive shops count on this, or most dive shops don't know the first thing about BP/W themselves.
I don't see any changes anytime soon.
I'm a die hard BP/W fan myself.
halocline
Contributor
If you are really writing an article on this topic, at least go to the BC forum and find some of the HUNDREDS of threads already dedicated to this topic. You'll find all sorts of opinions, both reasonable and hot-headed. This really isn't the right forum for this discussion.
Sales are driven by all sorts of things other than product quality or functional design. Don't forget, the basic sales model for dive shops is: Train OW students, sell them gear, bring in the next crowd.
I agree with you that the BP/W is superior in every aspect.
Easier for rentals and teaching. New divers complain a lot, heavy, hard, cold, uncomfortable..... A jacket has padding, you can pull the lead out quickly, the quick release shoulders get them out fast, it fits a range of people quickly. Bp/w lose a lot of the streamline factor when you have to add quick release weight pockets/trim pockets/weight belt to use an al80 in a drysuit, webbing straps need adjusting, it doesnt come off as fast.
I don't think jackets are better for divers in any respect. Companies make them because they are used by schools and dive centres as they are easier to adjust to fit different divers and new divers will buy something similar to what they used in class. Then they regret and end up buying a bp/w.
Maybe some divers frown upon the idea of having to buy things in parts or needing to adjust the harness...
Many of the things mentioned here for jackets are not exclusive of them. You can get adjustable harnesses, pockets, shoulder dumps, integrated weights, padding, etc on a bp/w.
Maybe some divers frown upon the idea of having to buy things in parts or needing to adjust the harness...
Many of the things mentioned here for jackets are not exclusive of them. You can get adjustable harnesses, pockets, shoulder dumps, integrated weights, padding, etc on a bp/w.
Mustard Dave
Contributor
These are the five most common advantages that I often hear cited:
1. A jacket keeps you vertical on the surface.
I can honestly say I have never had a problem staying vertical with a BP&W. If it is pushing you forward, let a bit of gas out.
2. A jacket has pockets.
You can buy pockets that fit on a one piece harness, use drysuit pockets, or wear cargo shorts over your wetsuit. All the kit I need on a single tank 'recreational' dive can be clipped off on the harness in a neat fashion. Also, how much crap do you really need to take in the water with you?
3. A jacket is easily adjustable.
How often do you need to adjust the harness? Once it is set up, you shouldn't need to touch it very often. For dive schools / hired kit, there is an obvious advantage as it will fit any customer, however, you can buy 'comfort harnesses' for a BP&W system or use something like the Halcyon Cinch system.
4. You can get integrated weight systems on jackets.
You can have them on a BP&W set-up too.
5. A jacket is more comfortable as it has padding.
Padding that fits to a BP&W is available too, or you can opt for the comfort harness. The truth is however, that the padding doesn't make a blind bit of difference. If anything, a simple one piece harness is more comfortable as there is less material restricting your movement.
A BP&W can be used for most types of diving and is easy to reconfigure, for example if you want to dive with twins. When the harness eventually wears out, just buy some replacement webbing. The backplate is pretty much indestructible and if the wing fails, you can easily replace it and keep the harness you know and love.
I use my BP&W exclusively for easy single tank diving these days; any deep stuff and I take the rebreather, which has a built in harness and wing. I would not go back to a jacket for any reason.
The only valid advantage of a jacket is item #3 when applied to hired kit. It is what holiday divers know because it is what they have usually been taught on. If dive schools worldwide started teaching with a BP&W from the word 'go', jackets would be redundant.
1. A jacket keeps you vertical on the surface.
I can honestly say I have never had a problem staying vertical with a BP&W. If it is pushing you forward, let a bit of gas out.
2. A jacket has pockets.
You can buy pockets that fit on a one piece harness, use drysuit pockets, or wear cargo shorts over your wetsuit. All the kit I need on a single tank 'recreational' dive can be clipped off on the harness in a neat fashion. Also, how much crap do you really need to take in the water with you?
3. A jacket is easily adjustable.
How often do you need to adjust the harness? Once it is set up, you shouldn't need to touch it very often. For dive schools / hired kit, there is an obvious advantage as it will fit any customer, however, you can buy 'comfort harnesses' for a BP&W system or use something like the Halcyon Cinch system.
4. You can get integrated weight systems on jackets.
You can have them on a BP&W set-up too.
5. A jacket is more comfortable as it has padding.
Padding that fits to a BP&W is available too, or you can opt for the comfort harness. The truth is however, that the padding doesn't make a blind bit of difference. If anything, a simple one piece harness is more comfortable as there is less material restricting your movement.
A BP&W can be used for most types of diving and is easy to reconfigure, for example if you want to dive with twins. When the harness eventually wears out, just buy some replacement webbing. The backplate is pretty much indestructible and if the wing fails, you can easily replace it and keep the harness you know and love.
I use my BP&W exclusively for easy single tank diving these days; any deep stuff and I take the rebreather, which has a built in harness and wing. I would not go back to a jacket for any reason.
The only valid advantage of a jacket is item #3 when applied to hired kit. It is what holiday divers know because it is what they have usually been taught on. If dive schools worldwide started teaching with a BP&W from the word 'go', jackets would be redundant.
jadairiii
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There is no benefit. You have to go back in time and realize why the Jacket bc was developed and what perceived problems it was solving. It was all about surface lift, not swimming. They were always considered life vest.
First, all early bc provided way to much lift. In the 70’s and 80’s is was all about the lift of the BC, 40 lbs was considered minimal and 60 was common, in a horse collar BC! I high lift horse collar (regardless of what the vintage guys think) were not very comfortable in the water ESPECIALLY if you were over-weighted. So some smart guys at Water Gill developed the Back BC, but continued the big lift and others follower in quick succession. The Scubapro BCP was “little” at about 45 lbs of lift, the At-Pac was upwards toward 60+ and the followers (Sportways, White Stag, etc) all had wings of 60+ lift. The back inflate BC got a bad rap at this point since a fully inflated (60+ pounds of lift) would really put a diver face down especially with all the weight on the divers belt (At-Pac was a bit different and actually attempted to address attitude while swimming, but I wont go into that, still had that issue) so Scubapro looked at the problem and developed the vest. Floated a diver on the surface very nicely and when swimming most of the gas went to the back like the Back BC’s. But they were somewhat ill fitting so as the progressed the companies added more and more straps, clips and cummerbunds to attempt to keep them stable, but now where near as nice as the single harness of the old back packs with the big wings.
Some of us always saw the benefits of a wing/BP (I have been diving wings since ’76) but the cave guys really saw the benefit and also added the steel back plate and big lift wings necessary to balance the big steel tanks and bottles. The advent of Halcyon and their development of the very small wings (bat wings) for singles diving became the real game changer and many followed. Even though Dive Rite had “smaller” wings they were still big wings jammed in retractable covers. It was Halcyon that made the leap and really perfected the single tank wing that now virtually all others are copies of (some good and some not so good)
But back to the jacket, now many jackets have limited lift since the dive community realizes that you don’t need 60 pounds of lift for a standard recreational rig, but they are still using a design that was never meant for swimming underwater.
I could go into much more detail but I need to work!!
First, all early bc provided way to much lift. In the 70’s and 80’s is was all about the lift of the BC, 40 lbs was considered minimal and 60 was common, in a horse collar BC! I high lift horse collar (regardless of what the vintage guys think) were not very comfortable in the water ESPECIALLY if you were over-weighted. So some smart guys at Water Gill developed the Back BC, but continued the big lift and others follower in quick succession. The Scubapro BCP was “little” at about 45 lbs of lift, the At-Pac was upwards toward 60+ and the followers (Sportways, White Stag, etc) all had wings of 60+ lift. The back inflate BC got a bad rap at this point since a fully inflated (60+ pounds of lift) would really put a diver face down especially with all the weight on the divers belt (At-Pac was a bit different and actually attempted to address attitude while swimming, but I wont go into that, still had that issue) so Scubapro looked at the problem and developed the vest. Floated a diver on the surface very nicely and when swimming most of the gas went to the back like the Back BC’s. But they were somewhat ill fitting so as the progressed the companies added more and more straps, clips and cummerbunds to attempt to keep them stable, but now where near as nice as the single harness of the old back packs with the big wings.
Some of us always saw the benefits of a wing/BP (I have been diving wings since ’76) but the cave guys really saw the benefit and also added the steel back plate and big lift wings necessary to balance the big steel tanks and bottles. The advent of Halcyon and their development of the very small wings (bat wings) for singles diving became the real game changer and many followed. Even though Dive Rite had “smaller” wings they were still big wings jammed in retractable covers. It was Halcyon that made the leap and really perfected the single tank wing that now virtually all others are copies of (some good and some not so good)
But back to the jacket, now many jackets have limited lift since the dive community realizes that you don’t need 60 pounds of lift for a standard recreational rig, but they are still using a design that was never meant for swimming underwater.
I could go into much more detail but I need to work!!
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