First thoughts and questions about singles rig

[elgoog]

Hi -

After months of lurking on this forum, silently (and sometimes, not so silently) complaining about my jacket BC and finally calling Tobin, I pulled the trigger on a pair of LCD30+SS plate rigs for my wife and myself. The entire experience was great - Tobin's explanations, order processing and shipping speed, etc.
Fit, finish and quality of all components is excellent (preaching to the choir, I know, but this absolutely deserves to be acknowledged). Mind-blowing how streamlined it is and how comfortable it feels. Compared to the rental jacket BCs I've dived with so far, it's almost like not wearing anything.

I did the basic rigging last night and will probably tune the fit today. I had a few questions after the initial setup -
1. Getting the webbing through the lower slots was an absolute bear. In terms of the rubber tabs holding it in place, I have no doubts it will be really useful in keeping the adjusted length constant but the installation had me gnashing my teeth. Since those rubber tabs hold the webbing under a fair bit of tension, are there any concerns with the rubber wearing out? Is it possible to replace just the liners on the backplate in case one falls off/wears out? I got the glide adapter for the right side so I'm not worried about constant friction with pulling the webbing back and forth through it while donning/doffing but am curious if anyone has noticed any wear on the rubber.
2. The webbing was a LOT stiffer than I was expecting. Does it soften up a bit after some use? I think the stiffness is good in general but the reason I ask right now is that snapping and unsnapping the belt buckle takes a significant amount of force and I'm pretty sure I'm going to get a finger caught in the snap at some point.
3. What is the difference in the use of serrated and plain webbing keepers? Can they be interchanged? The only thing I can think of is that serrated is for load bearing straps and plain for simple D-ring attachments.
4. Is the separate webbing keeper on the crotch strap required (the one that holds the strap to the backplate)? Can I do the same function with the keeper used for the butt D-ring? Before the final adjustments, the 2 keepers ended up pretty close to each other - not sure if they will remain that way, though...

Heading to Monterey this weekend to try them out and play with weighting/trim. We'll probably be at Del Monte Beach on Sunday morning, maybe even Saturday if I can get myself up early enough. If you see 2 divers with DSS rigs strapped to their backs and a couple of pitbulls running circles around them, that'll be us

Thanks in advance for reading through my long winded post,
elgoog

 

[tbone1004]

1: ask tobin, no experience, but I imagine if you're sliding it around regularly it will wear out eventually, rubber inserts are cheaper than replacing webbing

2: yes it does stiffen up after use, Nylon stretches significantly when it gets wet and softens up quite a bit. There is also sizing on the yarn to help with weaving so getting it wet will help immensely with softening it up. Try to avoid pool with it since chlorine is not good for nylon, but if you have to, rinse it very well in water.

3: Serrated slides tend not to slide, they stay put. Good for load bearing along the axis of the webbing, so you use them when you want to lock the webbing in place to the backplate. Typically you'll use regular slides for D-rings since when you pull on the D-ring it twists the webbing and won't slide. I don't use serrated anywhere fwiw

4: you technically could, but the upper slide lock is for length adjustment and the D-ring is positioned according to where you want to stow stuff. Sometimes they are not in the same position and it keeps you from having to move both slides around if you want to adjust the rig.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Those inserts DO NOT fall out or wear out. Once you have the adjustments set you should not have to move it anyway. But even if you do, from experience as mine are almost 8 years old on both of my DSS plates, unless you are moving the webbing every other week that is something you do not need to worry about. I don't sell DSS gear.

I have two other lines. But I don't ever see giving up my DSS Plates unless I completely stop diving or stop diving back mount. I still have one set of doubles and with a single 95 or smaller in a drysuit I need those two 4lb plates that bolt on to my DSS plates.

I can't even dive my freedom plate with the drysuit and single tanks. Gotta have the 14 lb back plate that I can make with my DSS plates.

---------- Post added August 6th, 2014 at 05:58 PM ----------

Just a note on the DSS webbing. It is heavy stuff but does soften up over time. So no worries there. As for pools and the webbing I might have a couple hundred hours on mine in the pool since it is what I often teach in. No signs of any additional wear and tear or even fading. And I can compare them as one rig is for doubles and the other for singles. The doubles plate and harness has never seen the pool. Equal amounts of OW though and I can't tell the difference other than the placement of an accessory pocket on the doubles plate that I don't have on the single tank set up.

 

[cool_hardware52]

Is it possible to replace just the liners on the backplate in case one falls off/wears out? I got the glide adapter for the right side so I'm not worried about constant friction with pulling the webbing back and forth through it while donning/doffing but am curious if anyone has noticed any wear on the rubber.

We've sold thousands of back plates and have replaced the over molded grommets on exactly one plate.

These had not worn out, but had to be removed so we could straighten a customers plate that was run over by a truck. Once the plate was straightened we molded on a new grommet.

Other than that we have seen *zero* failures.

Tobin

 

[rhwestfall]

No that was funny (and one heck of an example of customer service)

 

[Hatul]

My favorite feature of the DSS plate is the Glide Harness Adapter that allows you to adjust the tightness of the right shoulder strap and to release that strap when donning and doffing the harness. It's simple and works well.

 

[elgoog]

Thanks to all for the feedback!

The rig feels awesome underwater - still need to work on the weighting and trim (we had everything on belts) but pretty much felt great from the first dive itself. The glide adapter made donning/doffing incredibly easy in our wetsuits and was waaay better than having a QR.

I don't think I have the weighting completely right but definitely in the right range for both of us. I think I'm going to get the BP weight plates for my wife. She needed 16lb on the belt and I think moving 8lb to the plate will help a fair bit. I had 12lb on my belt and am on the fence if I should use the weight plates or not since that would leave only 4lb on my belt. I know the "perfectly balanced rig" doesn't need anything ditchable but am new enough to diving that having something I can drop makes me feel a little more comfortable. Thoughts on this? Is 4lb enough or should I aim to have some more on the belt?
We were both using steel tanks so one option for me is to switch to AL which would require 8-9lb of lead on the belt in addition to the plates. Also, we're using the kind of belt which have weight packets in pockets, so in theory, even if I had 8lb in there, I could drop weight in increments of 1-2lb.

I think I'm also ready to trim the webbing on the waist straps. I was going to leave 4-6 inches extra at each end. Is that reasonable or should I leave more/less?
I had the right strap going through the belt buckle and then through the crotch strap loop as well as the knife sheath loop.

Thanks again for all the info!

 

[cool_hardware52]

Thanks to all for the feedback!

The rig feels awesome underwater - still need to work on the weighting and trim (we had everything on belts) but pretty much felt great from the first dive itself. The glide adapter made donning/doffing incredibly easy in our wetsuits and was waaay better than having a QR.

I don't think I have the weighting completely right but definitely in the right range for both of us. I think I'm going to get the BP weight plates for my wife. She needed 16lb on the belt and I think moving 8lb to the plate will help a fair bit. I had 12lb on my belt and am on the fence if I should use the weight plates or not since that would leave only 4lb on my belt. I know the "perfectly balanced rig" doesn't need anything ditchable but am new enough to diving that having something I can drop makes me feel a little more comfortable. Thoughts on this? Is 4lb enough or should I aim to have some more on the belt?
We were both using steel tanks so one option for me is to switch to AL which would require 8-9lb of lead on the belt in addition to the plates. Also, we're using the kind of belt which have weight packets in pockets, so in theory, even if I had 8lb in there, I could drop weight in increments of 1-2lb.

I think I'm also ready to trim the webbing on the waist straps. I was going to leave 4-6 inches extra at each end. Is that reasonable or should I leave more/less?
I had the right strap going through the belt buckle and then through the crotch strap loop as well as the knife sheath loop.

Thanks again for all the info!

Regarding weight plates; When a diver moves ballast from their belt to their rig they have not changed their total weighting, but they have increase what their wing must float if they ditch their rig. It's wise to calculate the max negative the rig will be with a full tank and weight plates and verify that the wing offers enough lift.

If you are properly weighted, 4 lbs is enough to make you positive at the surface if you require rescue.

Tobin

 

[elgoog]

Regarding weight plates; When a diver moves ballast from their belt to their rig they have not changed their total weighting, but they have increase what their wing must float if they ditch their rig. It's wise to calculate the max negative the rig will be with a full tank and weight plates and verify that the wing offers enough lift.

This is what I got for max ballast -
SS plate = 5lb
Harness = 1lb
Regulator = 2lb
Weight plates = 8lb
Rental steel tank = 10lb (most spec sheets have LP steels at around 8.5-9lb)

Total = 26lb (< 30lb lift from the LCD30)

If you are properly weighted, 4 lbs is enough to make you positive at the surface if you require rescue.

Tobin

Sounds good, thanks!

 

[tbone1004]

just being irritating, but change rental steel tanks to 11lbs since the larger HP tanks are around 11 when full. Also factor in weight of your head, which is 10lbs when doing that calculation. Tobins basic calculation is fairly spot on, but you need to factor the 10lbs for your noggin, and whatever ballast is offset by your natural buoyancy and your exposure protection to make sure it can keep you at the surface. You'll be fine more than likely with a 30lb wing, but it good to keep the whole picture in view when you are doing these calculations. This really only becomes a factor if like me, you dive a 18lb travel wing for singles with a transpac, you have to make sure the rig is less than the 18lbs. Now I don't have a SS plate, so that's 5lbs, out, and I don't have weight plates, and I naturally sink, so I have to be careful diving that wing with steel tanks and I flat out can't dive it without exposure protection to help offset some of the weight because I usually sit VERY low in the water when the tanks are full.