flights from Cancun to Cozumel?

[Lorenzoid]

[Y]ou should still root for SW because its low-cost model keeps airfares in check and reduces ALL fares on routes where it competes.

I'm not sure it holds true everywhere. I am increasingly getting the sense that Delta, for example, has given up trying to match the low-cost carriers' fares and is focusing more attention on business travelers. Delta used to match AirTran's fares all the time, but not so much anymore.

 

[cvchief]

Mike and CVChief, you don't actually have to fly SW to like it. Just watch carefully the effect SW has on prices for competetive airlines. The FAA even has a name for it - the "Southwest Effect". This was a big part of the debate over repealing the Wright Amendment, which limited Southwest's ability to fly out of Love Field in Dallas. Take just two examples - Dallas/Kansas City and Dallas/St. Louis. Before the Wright Amendment was modified to allow SW to fly to Missouri, American had a virtual monopoly on these routes. Many years ago, I represented a client in a big trucking company bankruptcy in Topeka Kansas; I had to fly into Kansas City and drive to Topeka, and RT air from DFW to KC on American ran about $580. Once SW was allowed to fly to Missouri, and added a Dallas Love to KC route, airfares dropped by over 30%. Same story with Dallas to St. Louis. Expect airfares into Cancun and, to a lesser extent, Cozumel, to drop on other airlines once traffic from Southwest picks up. So even if you hate the SW model for boarding and seat assignment (BTW, the mathematics behind that model and why it is the most efficient for filling a plane and allowing a quick turnaround, part of SW's cost advantage over other airlines, is fascinating for math geeks), and decide not to fly SW, you should still root for SW because its low-cost model keeps airfares in check and reduces ALL fares on routes where it competes.

Lovely. All for it. Do I REALLY have to pay extra to get a the front of the line for a seat? Seriously that is how it works. Like some sort of gladiator games. Seems undignified. and common.

Now I got my seatguru going and checking out what is available. So with SW, I need to print it out and carry with me on one of those sneak QB arm things?

Ok, hun take one for the team. Faint in line. Ill rush the plane and get the exit row, aisle seat. If that doesn't work we have mom in reserve to do the broken hip bit. Give me 30 seconds then miraculosly recover. I will uncap the doe urine, so no one sits in that row until you get there.

Now break on three....

 

[sddiver]

MayAir has never been an option for us due to the weight restrictions and the scheduled departures have never matched up well with our arrivals. With late afternoon arrivals if you can't make the 4pm flight the next is 7pm. Makes little sense to wait around for that time when if you bag drag you arrive about the same time or even sooner.
I really miss the old service the name of which I don't remember. I think it ended in the late 90's. You could buy a ticket and include it in your entire itinerary as a connection form CUN to CZM at little additional cost. The plane was an ancient Fokker F27. Older than I am, and youth has left me behind. It had a high wing and huge props, one on each wing. The windows were all glazed and it seated ~ 30-50 people. It had a definite 3rd world feel to it. We had lots of gear and I don't remember any weight restrictions, but this was a more substantial aircraft than the current puddle jumpers in use.
Oh the good old days
Rich

 

[Ron Lee]

I would question whether the Southwest boarding process really saves time...or enough...to result in significant cost savings. Perhaps not issuing seats in the first place somehow saves money.

Regardless, it should be a benefit to the traveler.

 

[Lorenzoid]

MayAir has never been an option for us due to the weight restrictions and the scheduled departures have never matched up well with our arrivals. With late afternoon arrivals if you can't make the 4pm flight the next is 7pm. Makes little sense to wait around for that time when if you bag drag you arrive about the same time or even sooner.
I really miss the old service the name of which I don't remember. I think it ended in the late 90's. You could buy a ticket and include it in your entire itinerary as a connection form CUN to CZM at little additional cost. The plane was an ancient Fokker F27. Older than I am, and youth has left me behind. It had a high wing and huge props, one on each wing. The windows were all glazed and it seated ~ 30-50 people. It had a definite 3rd world feel to it. We had lots of gear and I don't remember any weight restrictions, but this was a more substantial aircraft than the current puddle jumpers in use.
Oh the good old days
Rich

Are you saying you're an old Fokker?

 

[Mike]

Lovely. All for it. Do I REALLY have to pay extra to get a the front of the line for a seat? Seriously that is how it works. Like some sort of gladiator games. Seems undignified. and common.

You pay more to get the opportunity of being in the first cattle call to the cattle gates, the A call up, instead of the B or C. The vertical poles are the queues. You get called up to them and everybody runs to get the best position, then you stand there and contemplate the lint in your belly button, stare into space or something else to bide your time, kind of like being on an elevator and nobody knows were to look, while everybody else who isn't in your queue sits and stares at you, while they limber up and stretch and get into their running blocks to be ready when the next queue gets called.

---------- Post added January 31st, 2014 at 01:34 PM ----------

Mike and CVChief, you don't actually have to fly SW to like it. Just watch carefully the effect SW has on prices for competetive airlines. The FAA even has a name for it - the "Southwest Effect". This was a big part of the debate over repealing the Wright Amendment, which limited Southwest's ability to fly out of Love Field in Dallas. Take just two examples - Dallas/Kansas City and Dallas/St. Louis. Before the Wright Amendment was modified to allow SW to fly to Missouri, American had a virtual monopoly on these routes. Many years ago, I represented a client in a big trucking company bankruptcy in Topeka Kansas; I had to fly into Kansas City and drive to Topeka, and RT air from DFW to KC on American ran about $580. Once SW was allowed to fly to Missouri, and added a Dallas Love to KC route, airfares dropped by over 30%. Same story with Dallas to St. Louis. Expect airfares into Cancun and, to a lesser extent, Cozumel, to drop on other airlines once traffic from Southwest picks up. So even if you hate the SW model for boarding and seat assignment (BTW, the mathematics behind that model and why it is the most efficient for filling a plane and allowing a quick turnaround, part of SW's cost advantage over other airlines, is fascinating for math geeks), and decide not to fly SW, you should still root for SW because its low-cost model keeps airfares in check and reduces ALL fares on routes where it competes.

Very well, as long as I can root from them from the sidelines.

I'm sorry but I just don't place lowest price as the end all victory for a product, nor a win for the consumer. I might even be persuaded to accuse SW and the SW effect as being the initial evil that has brought the rest of the airlines to the ridiculously lowest level of service in history all competing on fooling consumers into the lowest price initial ticket means you won!

---------- Post added January 31st, 2014 at 01:54 PM ----------

(BTW, the mathematics behind that model and why it is the most efficient for filling a plane and allowing a quick turnaround, part of SW's cost advantage over other airlines, is fascinating for math geeks),

Wouldn't the answer to "what is the fastest way to board and un-board an airplane?" simply be - (1) board from back to front. (2) the less carry-ons in overhead storage on board the faster the deplaning will be.

I believe no matter how much math or wrangling SW or any other airline wants to do, those 2 rules will always create the fastest boarding and un-boarding there is, with the exception of loading and unloading of passengers from multiple entrances to the plane.

 

[DjDiverDan]

Wouldn't the answer to "what is the fastest way to board and un-board an airplane?" simply be - (1) board from back to front. (2) the less carry-ons in overhead storage on board the faster the deplaning will be.

I believe no matter how much math or wrangling SW or any other airline wants to do, those 2 rules will always create the fastest boarding and un-boarding there is, with the exception of loading and unloading of passengers from multiple entrances to the plane.

No, simply boarding from back to front, with assigned seats, is not the fastest way to board a plane. There have been several studies done on this by efficiency experts, and controlled experiments, and it turned out that giving people the freedom to choose their own seats once they are on the plane, with no assigned seats, gives them a strong incentive to: (a) get as close to the front of the line as they can (even if it means paying more to be in boarding group A); (b) choose a seat based on all factors in place at the time, including avoiding those people in front of them putting lots of carry ons in overhead storage; and (c) getting their butts in a seat quickly. As I said, the mathematics is fascinating - a branch of chaos theory dealing with spontaneous order. Just like economic markets, the order which spontaneously arises from multiple individual choices, each person considering his or her own preferences as well as the conduct of the other people around them, is most often more efficient than the order imposed by rules created from above. As for paying extra to get in Boarding Group A, and getting first pick of a seat, that's purely a matter of personal choice. Every seat on the plane is going to the same destination and arriving at the same time. If you want the cheapest ticket, take a middle seat in Row 28 and be happy. If picking your own seat is important enough to you, well, pay for the priviledge. No one is holding a gun to your head either way.

 

[Mike]

I'll pit the time I spend wasted on boarding every flight waiting for at least 600 people who all for some reason one at a time want to stand in the aisle holding up the rest of us trying to board, as they play with their carry on trying to get whatever they happen to believe is so important in it, or adjust their fly, or stand there just in a daze... against any chaos theory of airplane boardying anyday.

And its not a matter of every seat on the plane is getting to the destination at the same time, a 1 hour flight requires anywhere from 4-5 hours to complete the process from start to finish. It's the 3-4 hours of cow herd like, utterly mind-numbing, shuffling, line standing, time wasting, retardedness that surrounds the time before the plane takes off and after it lands that is the issue.

Thanks God GOES interview locations came to Denver! TSA pre-screen and Global entry here we come! Hallelujah, I can keep my shoes and coat on and leave the lap top in the bag and walk through security in 90 seconds. Another small victory in the fight to feel a little bit more human in our inhumane process of air travel.

 

[cvchief]

You pay more to get the opportunity of being in the first cattle call to the cattle gates, the A call up, instead of the B or C. The vertical poles are the queues. You get called up to them and everybody runs to get the best position, then you stand there and contemplate the lint in your belly button, stare into space or something else to bide your time, kind of like being on an elevator and nobody knows were to look, while everybody else who isn't in your queue sits and stares at you, while they limber up and stretch and get into their running blocks to be ready when the next queue gets called.

.

Oh for the love Pete. THAT is what those stupid poles are for? They were at the gate in BWI last trip. Color me not liking.

 

[cvchief]

No, simply boarding from back to front, with assigned seats, is not the fastest way to board a plane. There have been several studies done on this by efficiency experts, and controlled experiments, and it turned out that giving people the freedom to choose their own seats once they are on the plane, with no assigned seats, gives them a strong incentive to: (a) get as close to the front of the line as they can (even if it means paying more to be in boarding group A); (b) choose a seat based on all factors in place at the time, including avoiding those people in front of them putting lots of carry ons in overhead storage; and (c) getting their butts in a seat quickly. As I said, the mathematics is fascinating - a branch of chaos theory dealing with spontaneous order. Just like economic markets, the order which spontaneously arises from multiple individual choices, each person considering his or her own preferences as well as the conduct of the other people around them, is most often more efficient than the order imposed by rules created from above. As for paying extra to get in Boarding Group A, and getting first pick of a seat, that's purely a matter of personal choice. Every seat on the plane is going to the same destination and arriving at the same time. If you want the cheapest ticket, take a middle seat in Row 28 and be happy. If picking your own seat is important enough to you, well, pay for the priviledge. No one is holding a gun to your head either way.

I would let you explain it to me over a beer. or seven. It is interesting, however, I WANT TO PICK MY SEAT and have it WAITING FOR ME!!!

Is that too much to ask?



I don't want to get the a big line and fight for seats. I don't want to lose the good seat cause someone in my party went to the can late and we got called. I don't want to fret the whole trip about if I zigged instead of zagged, I would not have lost that exit row.