the truth about DM's

[Jim Lapenta]

And isn't that due in part to DM's who will work for free and accept that as being ok? In so doing they devalue the rating and make it impossible to effect change in the status quo. It is also what allows substandard divers with minimal skill to become DM's. It is nothing more than another class for the shop to sell. If they had to be paid shops would be more selective about who they allow to become professionals. DM's would be chosen based on skill and knowledge. The quality of DM's would go up as would that of the instructors they would become. They could actually be called true professionals. Not just someone who was sold another class.

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[TMHeimer]

And isn't that due in part to DM's who will work for free and accept that as being ok? In so doing they devalue the rating and make it impossible to effect change in the status quo. It is also what allows substandard divers with minimal skill to become DM's. It is nothing more than another class for the shop to sell. If they had to be paid shops would be more selective about who they allow to become professionals. DM's would be chosen based on skill and knowledge. The quality of DM's would go up as would that of the instructors they would become. They could actually be called true professionals. Not just someone who was sold another class.

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Well, I couldn't agree more Jim, as I've said in the past. That's just the way it is I guess. 10 years ago I was told our shop paid DMs $100 per OW class and a lot quit--that would just come to gas money and a meal. So I guess our owner felt that continuing to have full (or even two) classes each weekend and paying DMs reasonably well was worth his while. Keeps the repeat customers coming to the shop to spend. As far as quality of DMs being based on money, of course you'd still get good ones and bad ones, but as you say, the shop would be more selective if pay was involved. Not exactly like, but kind of like teachers, cops, even politicians--you get good and bad (well, teachers and cops at least). But imagine who you'd get if the pay was half of what it is? That's not to say there aren't a gazillion DMs who don't get paid and still do a tremendous job-- just a curious bunch. The old arguement is that "I love diving". And "I love music", so I should play for free (despite my 2 Degrees). Now, I can somewhat see the arguement that it is just a stepping stone to Instructor. I could possibly understand someone DMing for free (or perks) if Instructor is his goal and there is good opportunity-- and pay-- for it. It would depend on how long one would then spend DMing for free. Of course the more DM experience you have the better, so another decision to make. And of course, some don't aspire to become instructors.

 

[carltona]

DM is just a stepping stone not a stopping place. It's a waypoint on your career path. Plan where you really want to be.


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[Jim Lapenta]

But it really should not be should it? A stepping stone. Some may be entirely ok with assisting classes and the like. So why not, if it indeed a professional certification, allow them to do that and require that they be paid. Again I only see positives since I believe they should be selected, not solicited. You'd get a higher class of person generally speaking as DM's. Require that they do that for a year before becoming an instructor, then make an instructor by again selection, and the interest of the DM. You now have experienced people becoming instructors and require them to be paid well also. Don't allow this work for free stuff that truly does de-value the cert. The DM/AI/Instructor puppy mills might not like it but oh well. Better instructors, better DM's, better divers. And you could raise the price for certifications to a level where it should be on par with other leisure activities. A good golf instructor can make $75.00 an hour or more, why shouldn't scuba profeasionals make at least that.
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[flots am]

It is nothing more than another class for the shop to sell. If they had to be paid shops would be more selective about who they allow to become professionals. DM's would be chosen based on skill and knowledge. The quality of DM's would go up as would that of the instructors they would become. They could actually be called true professionals. Not just someone who was sold another class.

Places that will be permanently employing the people they train tend to be more selective about who they teach, and and do a better job of it.

flots.

 

[oly5050user]

But it really should not be should it? A stepping stone. Some may be entirely ok with assisting classes and the like. So why not, if it indeed a professional certification, allow them to do that and require that they be paid.

It is a stepping stone if the dm plans on going to instructor.As for being paid it is up to the dm themselves. If they want to work for nothing or tips let them..In all honesty I myself have little need for a dm in any of my classes. Yes I know if I use a dm I can increase my ratio but I do not want to increase the ratio of students . IF and when I have a dm I advise students to leave them a tip for their efforts. So people get a dm rating because they may be a boat captain/ or crew and want to get the liability insurance to supervise divers. Supervision can be in or out of the water.That is a plus for them in the event they have an incident.

Again I only see positives since I believe they should be selected, not solicited. You'd get a higher class of person generally speaking as DM's. Require that they do that for a year before becoming an instructor, then make an instructor by again selection, and the interest of the DM.

Jim, sorry but a business cannot really support this idea of "selection" as it can be seen as a "good ole boys club" excluding people that someone judges who will not fit in to their vision of what a dm should be. Can be looked at as discrimination. Diving is a business for us and if a person can meet the requirements as stated by a training agency standards they pass, if they cannot they fail. Real simple.

You now have experienced people becoming instructors and require them to be paid well also. Don't allow this work for free stuff that truly does de-value the cert.

Pay scale ranges region to region and facility to facility. Work for free stuff absolutely devalues courses as consumers who know nothing about the activity look for fastest cheapest path to get a card.

The DM/AI/Instructor puppy mills might not like it but oh well. Better instructors, better DM's, better divers. And you could raise the price for certifications to a level where it should be on par with other leisure activities. A good golf instructor can make $75.00 an hour or more, why shouldn't scuba profeasionals make at least that.

I have no issues with dm/instr facilities that create "pros" like a puppy mill. They are a business as any other and are selling what some of the public wants. No one says you have to hire them.Most do not get hired when they go back home. We hired one only because he completed his dm and asst instr course with us and due to time off work issues he went to Key Largo to get his IDC/ IE done..his first class is this weekend with a private class,one to one ratio..Once they get their rating they can try to find work with a LDS, not likely as most if not all LDS prefer to hire staff from within their ranks of former students. Or they branch off on their own and teach their friends/family to dive and usually never teach again as to maintain ratings cost $$$$. As to raising the price of courses, I am all for it, BUT from a business viewpoint, if you raise the cost to where an unstructor charges $75. per hour and a ow course is now close to $1,500. and the guy across town is charging $300. Where do you think the consumer will go? Both end up with a piece of plastic that has their name on it and it says certified ow diver. Consumers view dive education as a simple product and they price shop for it as everything else they buy. Yes an instructor can charge a higher amount claiming their course is better, facility may have its own indoor heated pool, instructor has more experience,etc..But in the end the consumer has a limit on what they are willing to spend for a course that to them are the same as either will get them a card. If everyone raised the cost across the board it may price the activity out of their local market making it too expensive and people interested in diving will only do so on a vacation during a "Discover scuba diving" experience at a Club Med/Sandals resort type vacation. Or they will take up a different activity (tennis/golf/mountain bikes) to spend their disposable $$ on. What local diving that exists then will be more expensive (higher boat fees/air fills/quarry entrance fees,etc) as there will be fewer people participating in it.

 

[RiverRat]

Divemaster - Been there done that. I really enjoyed it for awhile and the knowledge gained (not sure of the latest course) and experience helping new divers was worthwhile. But my local shop eventually closed and people moved on. I made a few $ on the big classes, got some free air and meals here and there. But reality for me in the Northeast is that it would cost me too much in gas and time to run all over the place for free. Same with instruction not much $ to offset the insurance costs etc. I've seen many instructors come and go or just burnout.

 

[TMHeimer]

But it really should not be should it? A stepping stone. Some may be entirely ok with assisting classes and the like. So why not, if it indeed a professional certification, allow them to do that and require that they be paid. Again I only see positives since I believe they should be selected, not solicited. You'd get a higher class of person generally speaking as DM's. Require that they do that for a year before becoming an instructor, then make an instructor by again selection, and the interest of the DM. You now have experienced people becoming instructors and require them to be paid well also. Don't allow this work for free stuff that truly does de-value the cert. The DM/AI/Instructor puppy mills might not like it but oh well. Better instructors, better DM's, better divers. And you could raise the price for certifications to a level where it should be on par with other leisure activities. A good golf instructor can make $75.00 an hour or more, why shouldn't scuba profeasionals make at least that.
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Exactly. For me it is not a stepping stone.

 

[Akimbo]

I might have missed it but a DM, or anyone else who works on boats, is out of their mind if they don’t document it in an acceptable form for your country. The objective is to leave the option open so you can get your Masters/Captains license later. With that, you can consider time as a DM part of an apprenticeship on your way to a better paying gig.

 

[RiverRat]

Until the shops are able to charge more for classes there just won't be enough money to pay anyone what they're worth. Most shops are just trying to get the rent paid. Unless something changes I just don't see it getting any better. Tech training demands a bit more $ but that's even tight given the amount of time that is required to train someone properly.