TEST: New SanDisk 64 Extreme Micro SD and Hero 3 Black w/new Firmware

[EL Pistoffo]

I did some testing with my GoPro Hero 3 Black edition and SanDisks new 64 Extreme Micro SD card I just picked up. I did a comparison of before and after the new firmware patch. 1080p/60 Protune and WB Camera RAW.

This is the pre-patch data-rate and this is the post-patch data-rate

As you can see the bastards neutered my new Extreme card. The pre-patch rate was 45 Mbs and the post-patch rate is throttled down to 35 Mbs. This new card is supposed to be way beyond the Hero 3 Blacks required specs. I didn't pay the extra cost of the Black Ed. for the performance of a White or Silver GoPro. Needless to say I am returning this card for the Samsung Pro 64 which is half the price but now recommended by GoPro. SanDisks are now off GoPros list.

The good news is that it no longer freezes or stops recording randomly like before. I had a SanDisk Ultra 64 and it was very buggy, hence why I paid extra for this Extreme version. Now I was able to record over an hour straight till the battery died. So the new patch solves those issues by limiting the cameras performance. That's not a fix, its a band-aid. In all honesty, it's probably SanDisks fault but I would have liked to use my cards higher bandwidth (I think it would have been able to handle it) but that chance is gone unless I revert back a version on the firmware but lose the other new functionality.

So folks if you want the TRUE ADVERTISED performance of the Black in Protune mode, get one of GoPros newly recommended SD cards. http://gopro.com/support/articles/software-update-release

 

[divingpyrate]

yeah gopro is pretty ticked with sandisk
I think they throttle back all sandisk cards after having to replace a lot of cameras because the cards did not perform to advertised specs
the ultras especially were bad at that.

I doubt if you would ever notice the difference in video quality, but I will be replacing my ultras with lexors or samsungs


Why is the rum always gone

 

[EL Pistoffo]

Update:

I received and tested a Samsung Pro 64GB Micro SD card (MB-MGCGB/AM). The results were excellent. Recorded 1080p/60 Protune and Camera RAW. Data-rate to SD card was 45Mbs and recorded to 1 hr length with no stops as it should be.


It's unbelievable that a card with lower performance specs and price performs better than the expensive SanDisk Extreme series. SanDisk is definitely off my list.

 

[dfx]

What footage did you use to compare the bitrates? You know that bitrates are variable and depend on what's in the video.

 

[EL Pistoffo]

The same footage on all the takes (the Control). It was of me sitting at my desk. The stats fall in line with GoPro's latest statement. Hero3 Black with Protune will record with a data-rate up to 45Mbs. If a card (the Variable) other than their newly recommended ones are used it may be throttled down to 35Mbs with the new firmware. With what I have tested thus far, that has been confirmed.

That's probably why they gave SanDisk the boot and developed new firmware to address that issue by throttling the data-rate. The SanDisks are now stable but you are not getting what you paid for with a Black edition and Protune.

 

[eelnoraa]

First, you bitrate there has nothing to do with the actually data rate being written onto the card. In stead, it is the bit rate of the video you are shooting. With compression, the amount of data get written is substantially smaller.

There is also alot confusion about how SD performance is measured.

GoPro, or for that matter most of HD video, write file in Class speed format. It requires Class10, so I am pretty sure the protocol is following Class10 data format. The first condition of Class10 is the front end (SD/Device interface) is running at 50MHz, that is 25MB/s at the interface. This is the protocol between the device (Gopro here) and the SD card. That means, if the card is being written at Class10 format, the maximum data transfer rate is 25MB/s regardless what the card is capable doing in a pure sequential write. The requirement is to meet 10MB/s only.

Now, what is Class10 format? Simpley put, for 64GB (SDXC), Class10 writes random data in size of 16MB. Within each 16MB, the write is sequential. And keep in mind, this is all with a data stream coming in at 25MB/s only. A really efficient design SD card will usually archive 20MB/s write here. This is why buying a faster card won't help you in Class speed application as long as it meets class10.

There is one more catch here. The class10 spec is only valid for a flash card. As SD card or any flash memory age, it gets slower. So a card barely pass Class10 new will not meet class10 after some heavy use. This is the only valid reason to get a faster for video recording, or any other class speed application.

How and why do Samsung, SanDisk advertize these number?
Samsung 80MB/s read. 40MB/w write
SanDisk 90MB/s read, 60MB/s write

This is the sequential read and write speed. No random data, just a long sequntial data pattern, much like reading or writing photos onto a card. In both case, the front end is operating at UHS-I protocol at 208MHz. This give a theorotical interface speed of 104MB/s. This is how they both can archieve 80 and 90MB/s read speed. The read speed is actually limited by the interface here. The write speed here is limited the the flash memory in both case.
Most if not all portable device won't use UHS-H 208MHz protocal.

In reality, this sequential speed hardly matter espeically when use in portable device. Why? Because power consumption concern, most portable devices won't use UHS-1 at 208MHz. If a device is running at UHS-I 104MHz, the the max data rate is 52MB/s regardless of how fast the flash memory is. This is another reason why buying a faster card may not matter.

How one can test and verify this kind of speed? At this point, I think the only reliable way is to use an USB3.0 card reading that is capable of communicating at UHS-1 208MHz and measure sequential speed. If you do this, you will get 65MB/s with this SanDisk Extreme card and about 45MB/s for Samung Pro.

Both of them are good memory card, both are 19nm-21nm NAND, both are 2 bits/cell technology. Both are much better than SanDisk Ultra class10 uSD which is also 19nm, but 3 bit/cell memory.

 

[dfx]

First, you bitrate there has nothing to do with the actually data rate being written onto the card. In stead, it is the bit rate of the video you are shooting. With compression, the amount of data get written is substantially smaller.

Huh? Video bitrate is the data bitrate after compression. File size (in bits) divided by duration equals bitrate. Less detail = higher compression = smaller file size = lower bitrate. Thus, if you point your camera at a wall and let it record a static image, the bitrate will be lower than the same camera recording something that's in motion, even with the same video/compression settings.

 

[EL Pistoffo]

Aside from all the technicalities, this is what happened in a nutshell:

Pre-firmware patch - SanDisk Ultra 64GB, random recording stops, camera freezes. -CRAP

Pre-firmware patch - SanDisk Extreme 64GB, 45Mbs video bitrate (did not test recording stability) - NEUTRAL

Post-firmware patch - SanDisk Extreme 64GB, 35Mbs video bitrate, good recording stability - SUBSTANDARD

Post-firmware patch - Samsung Pro 64GB, 45Mbs video bitrate, good recording stability - GOOD

It all boils down to this. The SanDisk cards simply will not give you the best performance on the HERO 3 Black Edition. GoPro even states this. The Samsung Pro will.

 

[dfx]

So what happened there? Does the new firmware make the camera detect Sandisk cards and reduce video quality/bitrate with them? In order to keep them from locking up?

 

[divingpyrate]

Yes basically
And I dont blame gopro
They took back a ton of cameras and got a pretty big black eye because they assumed the microSD cards from Sandisk were as good as their SDCards
and they were not
The MicroSD from sandisk, specifically the ultras (class10) have some pretty significant quality issues. Quality control appears to have just been plum absent.

So good or bad, Gopro just looks at the card and if it is Sandisc it throttles it back and solves the problem by writing at a speed the card can handle