Hydro Atlantic Incident 9-30-2012

[Sevenfeet]

I've been reading this this thread with a deep amount of sadness and horror. I understand the lure of the deep technical dive and it is certainly a necessary skill for mankind to know and use. But at the same time, it's reserved for a distinct small subset of divers who are willing to take the risks and do the diligent training and safety operations it requires. Most of us will never do a dive like this. But I met a coworker at a dinner that showed me his dive to the Fujikawa Maru in the Truk Lagoon. The pictures he had and the story was intense...and so was doing the trimix deco process along with the large shark that he encountered there. I don't need that kind of drama.

One more thing...my wife got PADI OW certified last month in time for our vacation in Kauai last week which included two days of 2 tank diving there. During her training I remember the sections that discussed EAN/Nitrox and I tried to explain to her the whys of diving with enhanced air. But I do not remember any discussion in the basic OW course (the online version) that covered the specific tank marking including how to tell if a tank is marked for Nitrox. I can understand why...usually recreational divers on vacation are never going to be on the same boat as the tech divers. But it is possible for someone with EAN training to order a Nitrox mix for a dive and then it falls to the diver and the boat operator to keep it separate from the other tanks. Our tour operator did have EAN tanks filled with normal air mixed in with the rest of the group but no one was doing a Nitrox dive that day anyway (I witnessed all the tanks being filled from the same source including the 100s I typically ask for). And I would think that a real EAN dive would be covered in the safety briefing before we left the dock.

Still, I could see some utility in all divers learning proper EAN/Nitrox tank markings in order to eliminate mistakes on dive boats. When I got my AOW cert from IDEA in 1998, EAN diving was still new and a lot of dive shops weren't teaching it yet so even I don't have any training on markings and protocol. I may take a Nitrox PADI class at some point in the future so that I at least know what to look for, even if I don't habitually look to dive with enhanced air.

 

[scubacouple]

If a diver, like you, is pushing their O2 clock with 4 or 5 nitrox dives in a day, then you..or this diver, would be careful to analyze each tank and have each marked..or they/you would "expect" to become a statistic. Howard's comment was about an air diver, on a recreational dive, accidentally grabbing a nitrox tank...

Fair enough... but often when I dive those types of days which are obviously long one's you really have to be careful of what tank your putting on and what mix it is. Not just having it marked properly. Some of these days are recreational and still considered sport diving, some are not. I've caught some potentially fatal dives over the years. A little over 30 years in fact...

---------- Post Merged on October 5th, 2012 at 12:10 AM ---------- Previous Post was on October 4th, 2012 at 11:53 PM ----------

The reality is the only way to know for certain in that scenario would be to have an analyzer and check each tank. Unfortunately at this time for many that is fantasy. While you watched each tank being filled with air it is easily possible that any of those tanks had already had O2 put in them which is exactly what happened to Jeff. He thought he had air and some how they had been O2 filled. The some how isn't relevant. What is relevant is that a simple 2 minute check could have saved his life. I think what happened here is that Jeff had a lot of outside life factors that were significant distractions and he did not have his normal clear mind. He skipped protocol and he knew better. Jeff was a very solid diver and I don't give that title out to many or easily... He had done so many of these types of deep dives it was the same as what many of you would look at diving on a 30' reef. He was diving well within his training and ability level. Some of you can't imagine that there are guys like Randy Jordan who day after day, year after year, dive deep in ripping current & poor vis, with big aggressive sharks and it's just another day at the office. It's not a big deal. The one thing that is a big deal to them is following protocol. if you don't do this it's not a matter of IF it's a matter of when...

I've been reading this this thread with a deep amount of sadness and horror. I understand the lure of the deep technical dive and it is certainly a necessary skill for mankind to know and use. But at the same time, it's reserved for a distinct small subset of divers who are willing to take the risks and do the diligent training and safety operations it requires. Most of us will never do a dive like this. But I met a coworker at a dinner that showed me his dive to the Fujikawa Maru in the Truk Lagoon. The pictures he had and the story was intense...and so was doing the trimix deco process along with the large shark that he encountered there. I don't need that kind of drama.

One more thing...my wife got PADI OW certified last month in time for our vacation in Kauai last week which included two days of 2 tank diving there. During her training I remember the sections that discussed EAN/Nitrox and I tried to explain to her the whys of diving with enhanced air. But I do not remember any discussion in the basic OW course (the online version) that covered the specific tank marking including how to tell if a tank is marked for Nitrox. I can understand why...usually recreational divers on vacation are never going to be on the same boat as the tech divers. But it is possible for someone with EAN training to order a Nitrox mix for a dive and then it falls to the diver and the boat operator to keep it separate from the other tanks. Our tour operator did have EAN tanks filled with normal air mixed in with the rest of the group but no one was doing a Nitrox dive that day anyway (I witnessed all the tanks being filled from the same source including the 100s I typically ask for). And I would think that a real EAN dive would be covered in the safety briefing before we left the dock.

Still, I could see some utility in all divers learning proper EAN/Nitrox tank markings in order to eliminate mistakes on dive boats. When I got my AOW cert from IDEA in 1998, EAN diving was still new and a lot of dive shops weren't teaching it yet so even I don't have any training on markings and protocol. I may take a Nitrox PADI class at some point in the future so that I at least know what to look for, even if I don't habitually look to dive with enhanced air.

 

[TomZ]

I did a Deep Certification in Cozumel this July. As earlier noted, the markings in Coz can be less than obvious to the untrained. I went to 130' on air. Obviously the MOD for either 32% EAN or 36% EAN would have been exceeded on a 130' dive. You can be assured I tested my mix for 20.9%. Playing the "what ifs" though... Worst (likely) case scenario without any unforeseen circumstances: I'm diving a larger tank say a steel 120, as several Coz ops do, I'm not Nitrox trained, I get a poorly marked tank of 36% EAN. I go to 130' with an aggressive computer believing I'm diving air.. .

My actual dive was on an 80 with only 7 minutes planned at 130', but a steady ascent within NDL's gave me plenty of time beyond the Nitrox MOD. It's plausible but unlikely, as many accidents are. I still test every tank for CO and O2.

 

[HowardE]

Howard you are very knowledgeable but this is not necessarily true. I've had many days doing 4 or 5 tanks where I've wound my O2 clock way up. The wrong tank could easily have me take a hit. The majority of divers are not doing that but there are plenty that are...

---------- Post Merged at 11:05 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 10:56 PM ----------

I learned this the hard way over the years after putting myself in bad situations under deco. It took me a few times sitting there under deco, feeling like hell and wishing like hell I had not done the deep dive I didn't feel up to that day. Now I'm older and wiser and have no problem saying I'm gonna pass on today's dive if i don't feel right. It's a very good point you brought up. It's more important to deco divers because once you are committed no matter how bad you feel your in it until your done your obligation. But you really brought up something good for others to chew on. You don't have to do your dive. If you're not feeling it then pull the plug. There is always another day, another dive, unless there isn't because you didn't listen to your body/mind...

I was answering a hypothetical question to a simple one dive scenario posed by ScubaPink, not getting into the complexities of repet diving and planning air dives, but actually diving nitrox (as Dan pointed out).

From some of your comments about this accident, I also feel it's important to share another of John Chatterton's 10 commandments of wreck diving (actually there are 12).

"Don't dive with your head up your ass"

In other words... If you're making a big dive. Don't do it if you're not in the game. If life has so much going on around you that you are pulled in all directions mentally, and maybe your significant other is sick, or your dog had surgery, you just found out the IRS is auditing you... whatever the case may be. If there's so much going on in your life that your mind is all wrapped up. Deep diving isn't a great way to escape the pressures of life. Maybe a shallow pretty fishy dive would be more appropriate, or better yet... a movie.

 

[danvolker]

Let me just add, that a terrible tragedy like this very popular diver's death, should NOT be the birth of a flame-a-rama with 20 or more of us fighting with each other. The "tone" of this thread is teetering at the brink right now.
Most of us are posting because we do care..but I think we need to be sensitive to how this thread "feels"...

 

[boulderjohn]

Still, I could see some utility in all divers learning proper EAN/Nitrox tank markings in order to eliminate mistakes on dive boats.

The problem with this is that there are no universal tank markings that can be taught. Many nitrox tanks have large green and yellow labels, but many don't. Some are marked in other ways, including the small circle of green paint around the valve I mentioned earlier. Many are not marked in any way that is easy to discern. For example, all of the tanks I own are oxygen clean and may contain almost any mix, but you won't see any markings at all on them, other than the visual inspection sticker that indicates they are oxygen clean and the analysis tape that indicates what I put in them.

 

[danvolker]

One of the NORMAL things you see on the dive charter boats in Palm Beach, is the DM or crew of the boat, asking if any diver needs a tank O2 analyzed. They will do if for the diver, with the diver watching, or let the diver do it themself.
I think this is probably fairly normal in many destinations, where alot of people use nitrox...Here in Palm Beach, almost every diver is diving nitrox on most boats....On our 55 to 65 foot deep reefs like Breakers or Pauls, this gives an hour long dive and 45 minute to 60 minute SI, then another hour long dive...... Air divers get shafted with less diving. The boats run at this schedule..Morning trip, then afternoon trip.
If they go north, whether for 85 foot deep wrecks or the 75 to 90 foot deep reefs, Nitrox divers will get MUCH MORE dive time than air divers, and most immediately see it as crazy to limit your dive experience with air diving.
The dive operations really want all the divers to have maximum fun, so they really want the divers to all use Nitrox.....air divers will typically hear from many people on any boat, about how they need to get a nitrox cert....this will be from the passengers, as well as the crew

If there is any reader of Scubaboard going through this thread, that is NOT Nitrox certified.....which would be surprising to me unless they are a brand new diver.....then WOW! What are you waiting for. Learning Nitrox is so incredibly easy that it really should have been covered in your initial open water course, but unfortunately, it is a modularized system , and you have to take the short and simple Nitrox course, as a separate class.

Take the course....pay attention to the part about analyzing your tanks. Most divers have the sense to check and see if there is air in their tank before jumping into the water. When you understand Nitrox, the checking percentage is just as simple, and only takes a moment. The boats in any good destination where Nitrox use is commonplace, will make this easy for you also. If you don't want to buy your own analyzer ( many people wont want to), you can easily find boats that have them on board, when you are calling to decide what boat you want to book on. OR... You just get tanks at the shop that you can CLEARLY IDENTIFY as YOUR TANKS, and when you get them filled, then YOU make sure what each of YOUR TANKS has in it, after the filling takes place...and YOU put the label on each tank, with the date...
A good shop will also help you with the conscientious labeling and getting rid of old labels.. The shops I use in Palm Beach, both Pura Vida and Force E, are both very good about this, as is the shop I use for diving south in Pompano ( some of my deep diving) this shop being Pompano Dive Center---and these guys are very helpful in forcing their customers to be anal about bottle marking right after each fill.

No one can force each of us to do everything by the book. The longer we dive, the easier it is for us to take shortcuts. This well liked instructor, Jeff, leaves us one last huge lesson...his lesson that even the best trained divers need to be serious about analyzing their tanks before diving them.

 

[deepstops]

How many posts does it take dissect an accident that was a screw-up of a pretty basic rule?

87 apparently.

 

[peterbj7]

I think the real danger when any tech divers are mixed with recreational holiday divers is with high mix O2 tanks, not nitrox. Two or three years ago in such circumstances a woman did a recreational dive using a tank of 80%, without harm. The owner hadn't marked it - he said he didn't see the need, even after the incident - and just relied on his knowing where he'd stowed it. It was reported in these pages somewhere.

On CO, I have never heard of anything beyond an aborted dive and a headache, and that's both here in Belize and in England. I had it happen to me once, and the headache didn't go for hours even though I was back on the boat not much more than five minutes after leaving it.

 

[boulderjohn]

On CO, I have never heard of anything beyond an aborted dive and a headache, and that's both here in Belize and in England. I had it happen to me once, and the headache didn't go for hours even though I was back on the boat not much more than five minutes after leaving it.

There have been a couple of deaths recently, including especially the incident in the Maldives reported earlier, an incident that made ScubaBoard famous among online discussion areas for a while. There have been a couple of other cases just in the last year.