Diving without Certification (A RANT)

[dfx]

I learned how to dive without benefit of an instructor (I predate all the agencies), but in over 50 years of diving, well over 10,000 dives, I have never needed to avail myself of knowing not to hold my breath when darting to the surface ... you see ... I've never darted to the surface.

Good to see that everybody understands what an example is.

 

[rx7diver]

My instruction was: never hold your breath, go down, pinch your nose and gently blow, swim around, when it gets hard to breathe pull the lever and come up. Never come up faster than your slowest bubble.

We read books and listened to experienced divers.

I bought a card in 78 because shops and boats were asking for them.

Although there is a plethora of schools, agencies, and training available, it is not necessary.

Does not a "discover scuba" experience not consist of the same instruction I worked from? Sans "pull the lever"...

OP, a close friend (a fellow Army brat) received his mail-order scuba gear (from Sears, iirc) during the summer before our senior year in high school, in 1972. His "instruction" was a pamphlet that came with the gear, which contained, essentially, what adurso wrote above. He taught himself by solo diving in Belton Lake on Fort Hood in central TX. I joined him once, my first time breathing off scuba: Stood in knee-deep water next to a fallen tree, put regulator in my mouth, started breathing off of it, held onto the tree, submerged my head. Eureka! I was scuba diving!

I think a lot of people used to learn this way. And, 1972 was not all that long ago!

Safe Diving,

rx7diver

 

[agilis]

(Re;DFX)

I'm not sure where you live, but around here a red light is simply a suggestion, an indication that an effort should be made to see if there are any police vehicles in the immediate vicinity. There is also a cultural bias in your comment. I've been driving on Dominica for many years and have encountered only one red light, in Roseau. Back in the 90s Jamaica placed a red light in Negril, but it was quickly disabled. It became a standing joke. In Colombia I read a magazine article about the large numbers of middle-class people who were emigrating to the US. The writer described several unanticipated problems that Colombianos encountered in el Norte. (My translation) "Up there they actually expect you to stop your car when there is a 'STOP' sign and will sometimes penalize you if you do not!"

In all of these places they make fun of frightened incompetent graceless American drivers. I have to agree with them, from what I have seen. Anyone who even contemplates taking scuba lessons without understanding such basics as Boyle's law before they put a toe in the water might be reasonably expected to leap off a building in an attempt to fly unless the effects of gravity are brought to their attention.

 

[HowardE]

Exactly my point. Your dad may be able to teach you how to drive a car in a parking lot, but knowing to stop at a red light is something completely different and has nothing to do with being able to drive a car. In fast, most people will know that even if they don't know how to drive a car, while it's probably not something you dad will tell you in a parking lot while teaching you how to drive.

The same applies to diving. Knowing not to hold your breath when darting to the surface is not a skill you can acquire or develop. It's a rule you have to learn and adhere to in order not to kill yourself.

You're right about the red lights and stopping at them... My dad didn't tell me that. I learned that when I was 5 years old, and was riding a bicycle. Maybe I learned that from Big Bird... I can't remember... Your point??

We're talking about taking an uncertified diver diving one time... nobody is saying to NOT get certified ever. Nobody said either to just say, "come on... we're diving" - in the scenario that started this an experienced diver took a guy diving... that's all.

When I took a friend diving I said this.

"Ok... Important things to know.
1. Don't hold your breath... keep breathing ALWAYS
2. Here's how you clear your ears
3. Here's how you clear your mask... We'll do this once we get on the bottom
4. Don't bolt for the surface or make a rapid ascent. We'll go up and down together
5. I'll be right there the whole time... and we'll only be 15 feet deep."

I would have to assume that ANYONE would give at least this basic overview before taking someone diving... Yes?


--

Again... I don't think ANYONE has suggested to bypass the certification process, but merely to essentially do a "Discover Scuba Diving" with someone... that's all.

 

[Teamcasa]

Instructing is not certifiying. Like some of the other old farts, I dived for two or three years before getting certified but today, it's a risky proposition. There are lots of people who could teach someone to dive, but they are (for the most part) insured.

Would I teach someone to dive today? Maybe, but I doubt it - the risk just does not justify the reward.

 

[sauga]

I'm on the fence with this one. My opinion, it comes down to the individuals involved. The first drivers didn't have licenses or training; the first pilots "winged" it. As a volunteer and professional firefighter with many certifications (structural, wildland, medical, technical, etc.) I can tell you that when the crap hits the fan, a lot of how someone responds depends on who they are. I've seen highly trained individuals freeze up at the moment truth, and trainees adapt to the situation like an old pro. Sure, training is a great thing, but for an "intro" scuba swim, it doesn't seem like the sky is falling to me.

My daughter (18 y.o) wants to try scuba. I handed her the NOAA dive manual and told her to read the first few chapters, because there WILL be a test. When I'm satisfied with her understanding of the risk, I'm sure we'll head off to the pool to give it a try. If she wants to pursue diving, I'll arrange proper instruction with a friend. Hell, I took her skydiving for her 13th birthday, which was kinda funny, because it gave her the distinction of taking off in an airplane, but never landing in one!?

So I say let's not take ourselves so seriously. Sure, there are risk, but it's not like we're walking a tightrope across the grand canyon.

J

 

[ktomlinson]

We still haven't been told the actual details of the dive, and in my opinion that makes all of the difference if the question truly is about safety.

I took my brother shore diving a few years ago and told him the same thing that HowardE told his friend. It was a calm day and we tooled around at 15' and had a fun time. I know my brother and knew he was smart enough to understand what I was telling him, and that he isn't prone to panic. I also knew that he or my parents wouldn't sue me if he had an accident or hurt himself (he's unmarried). I wouldn't take other people diving now because I'm going through divemaster and think if you are going to represent an agency you should follow their rules, and because of the liability issues.

 

[supergaijin]

Hands up; who in the room has experience in controlling panicking first time divers?
Who has the training to know what to say, and what not to say to first time divers?

Without knowing anything about the 'tech diver' in question, this thread will be destined to go around in circles. I simply put my case that being a 'tech diver' with 250 dives does not make one immediately suitable to be bringing novices down underwater. 250 dives and a long hose doesn't make one capable of explaining and conducting beginner dives.

As this is in the New Divers thread, I would strongly suggest that anyone wishing to try scuba diving, enlist in a sanctioned DSD programme- which is not going to cost you $300. To suggest otherwise is misleading.

Think about this... If I give my friend a DSD class, then they may actually WANT to get certified, and be great at it. It's hard to make a $300+ commitment to something you might not even like at all.

For any other '250+ tech divers' aspiring to be instructors... well I hope you know what you think you know about introducing others to a potentially hostile environment.

 

[Thalassamania]

Hands up; who in the room has experience in controlling panicking first time divers?
Who has the training to know what to say, and what not to say to first time divers?

....

Hands up; who in the room has no experience what-so-ever in controlling a panicking diver (first time or otherwise)?

Me, me, me, teach.

Who has the training to know what to say, and what not to say to first time divers?

That doesn't come from training, that comes from who you are.

 

[eelnoraa]

250 dives isn't that much experience IMO.

If the dive is in a pool, I think it may not be as inappropriate.

Alright, I have to get this off my chest!! I have a friend who decided to go diving without any certification. The guy that took him was a Tech Diver with over 250 dives. I told my friend that diving without a cert is a pretty big risk. He may try it and love but by never taking the class he doesn't know what he doesn't know. I'm pretty upset at the Tech diver, because a guy with his experience and training should have put the brakes on this.

Am I making a big deal for no reason or do ave a point. No one here seems to think it is a big deal.