Diver lost in Cozumel today

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Status
Not open for further replies.
Keeps getting more and more convincing this entire incident is a buddy issue, with the confusion with the time lines with the husband, keeps pointing to the story as reported that doesn't make much sense, in reality doesn't make much sense for a reason.

Once a buddy pair is separated, any problem the distressed (now solo) buddy has, can become dangerous or fatal in seconds.

Yet another reason for new divers to not join mob dives and "follow the leader."

A less obvious reason is that a buddy pair diving without a DM or a mob would have simply ended the dive when either one became unhappy or had problems.

flots.
 
Last edited:
WSOPFAN, I can't attest to what this husband did between the time I descended and the time we all surfaced at the end together. The only time I was scanning the group was to locate my buddy who might have shifted out of my view during the dive, and I can't recall distinguishing this man from the crowd. I just know he surfaced with us at the end. I honestly am not posting on this forum to point fingers or blame. This man's life is ruined already. I only want people to realize the importance of the Buddy System and to not take it for granted.

I WOULD love to know what content they have on the video. I am also trying to get the information off of my Aeris XR 2. I've managed to download a program called MacDive, download a driver that seems to be recognized by the program, but it won't seem to connect to my usb cable/computer. The cable seems to fit into my computer, but it doesn't feel like it's locked into the DC. Is this how the usb cable should feel? I may take it to the dive shop here in NYC and see what they can do.
 
The only time I was scanning the group was to locate my buddy who might have shifted out of my view during the dive, and I can't recall distinguishing this man from the crowd. ... I only want people to realize the importance of the Buddy System and to not take it for granted.
At least it sounds as if there were assigned buddies rather than a simple group following the DM.
 
My view is that policies/procedures need to change NOW. One possibility is that cruise ship groups get TWO DMs. One lead..one trail.

If that adds $10 USD to the dive, so be it.

Newbies need additional oversight, nurturing, mentoring or whatever you want to call it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Dive safety in Cozumel has been a problem for a long time there. Boats operating illegally, taking divers on dives they are not qualified for, you name it. If you think my opinions/facts are irrelevant feel free to Google Santa Rosa and how it is notorious for these types of current. The DM who claimed he has 9 years of diving there and didn't know of these currents is dumbfounding. In light of the recent accidents in Cozumel they have stepped up the inspection process and have been cracking down on illegal activity as is evidenced by this article from today's news.

Google Translate

Also GDBKEV........just curious what you were doing over a wall 84 ft deep with less than 24 dives? I guess the operator thought you would be perfectly fine even though there were bad currents in the area?

Let's be clear about what happened here:

1) Profit Margin
2) Safety

Number 1 came before number 2 and now we have a missing diver.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
84 feet was the depth to which I was pulled down to from the current. By inflating my bcd and finning up I returned to @60 feet for the rest of the dive. This was the first dive on our trip. This was also the only dive I booked through the cruise ship. I had figured a cruise ship dive would be an easy dive, being led like ducklings. How was I to know. All the following dives on our trip I booked independently of the cruise line with outstanding dive shops with less than four people to a dive.
 
I think the whole agitation about which site novice divers were diving and with who is a distraction from the likely root cause of any issues that might occur while diving in such a situation, which would seem to be inadequate training and insufficient knowledge of the dive conditions. Every training agency teaches their divers that the individual is responsible for making sure their dive skills are sufficient for the conditions they plan to dive in. There are tons of sources of information about dive sites on Cozumel, and almost every one I have ever seen refers to Santa Rosa Wall as a difficult and challenging dive requiring moderate to advanced skill level. We can whine and cry all day about why the operators took "cruise ship divers" to such a difficult site, but that really starts by assuming that the cruise ship divers are somehow different than other divers and should be held to some lower expectation of knowledge and training.

Last time I checked, a PADI OW card held by a land-based diver meant they had the same level of training as a cruise ship diver holding a PADI OW card. So why is it that we expect something different from the operator serving the cruise ship than we do from the typical cattle boat operator on Coz serving a big resort hotel? Why do we expect the land-based diver to know the dive sites and the cruise ship diver to be oblivious? It isn't like the cruise ship dragged them out of bed by surprise, dropped a BC on them, and threw them in the water with no idea where they were...cruise ship divers plan these trips in advance just like land-based divers do, and have plenty of time to read up on Cozumel conditions and dive sites. They have the ability to tell the DM they want a site suitable for beginners, and when he says "Santa Rosa Wall" or "Devil's Throat", they can say no, my skills aren't up to that. It is the individual that has the responsibility to understand their skill level and to understand where they are being taken to dive, regardless of whether they are on a ship or staying in a hotel.

This was a tragic circumstance, but it is clear as more details are coming out that training was a factor in this incident. If a diver has a weight belt wrapped around them such that it can't be easily ditched, they are ignoring their training (or were poorly trained). In buddy system diving, when you lose your buddy, you search for one minute, then surface and get help. If the diver lost contact with a buddy who was calling the dive, and then continued the dive without making sure they were safe and that he had a buddy in the group, that is poor training. I understand and remember being a new diver and thinking the DM was the ultimate authority, but I was also fortunate enough to have an instructor who told us some "case study" type stories where DMs made bad mistakes and divers who blindly followed got hurt too. If a DM found out a diver in the group was missing or had ascended without a buddy and continued the dive, that is bad training on the DM's part.

There are obviously alot of scenarios we can all go through about what might have ultimately happened here, but it just really bugs me to see the blanket assumption that cruise ship divers are morons who need more hand-holding simply because of the means by which they arrived on the island. I hate cruise ships in general as much as anybody who has seen what they have done to quiet paradises across the Caribbean, but we don't do scubadiving as a sport any favors by segregating what we expect from divers based on their type of transportation. A diver is a diver is a diver, regardless of how they get there, and they all should know enough about where they plan to dive to know whether they are capable of diving there safely.
 
Please keep in mind that a fellow diver has been lost, and a family who has lost a love one may still be reading this thread. We can theorize and even disagree, without resorting to personal attacks.

As in so many of this type of accident the real facts are still pretty scarce, but theories, and the rumors are not.
 
My view is that policies/procedures need to change NOW. One possibility is that cruise ship groups get TWO DMs. One lead..one trail.

If that adds $10 USD to the dive, so be it.

Newbies need additional oversight, nurturing, mentoring or whatever you want to call it.

There seems to be a lot of finger pointing at "cruise ships", however you can't actually make any generalizations about the SCUBA skills or training of anybody who gets off one.

My buddies and I regularly take cruises because our wives don't dive, however you would be hard pressed to call any of us "newbies," and in general, we're a hell of a lot more competent than quite a few of the DMs we've run into.

While newbies do require mentoring and all sorts of other stuff, what they really need is a very benign, non-threatening environment to hone their skills, not a Superman-DM to herd them though someplace they shouldn't be, and try to protect them from stresses and dangers they shouldn't be encountering.

flots.
 
Last edited:
Number 1 came before number 2 and now we have a missing diver.

I think that it is safe to say now that the woman is deceased. While it would be instructive to know exactly what happened, we may never know.

Some may want to assess blame. But that will not fix anything. What is needed in my "Cozumel dive op customer" opinion is a realization that new divers should be given extra supervision. The ways to do it may vary among shops and specific dive group circumstance.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom