new Sidemount diver trying to do drills with us at BHB....Problems beyond belief!

[MXGratefulDiver]

Tobin, if optimally configured, can a sidemount diver be as close to the bottom without silting as a back mounted diver.....from what I have just seen, this appears to be a problem.

Simple answer is yes ... if the rig is properly configured and the diver is sufficiently skilled.

One of my regular dive sites is a bottle field in a flat, silty area where you can easily silt it out with a stray thought if you're not careful. Diving sidemount I can get within an inch or two of the bottom without silting, if I move carefully enough and use just a flicker of my fin tips to maneuver. For some shots, that sort of control is necessary.

Since I like to dive this site solo, before sidemount my options were either doubles or a singles rig with slung AL40. In the latter, getting that close to the bottom simply wasn't an option. I much prefer the sidemount rig because it gives me more control and maneuverability overall than my back-mounted doubles did.

But I'm wondering something else ... I understand that Bob Sherwood is a phenomenal instructor ... but does he dive sidemount? How much does he know about different setups and systems? Seems to me that if you're going to refer someone with sidemount equipment issues to an instructor, you'd choose one who dives sidemount regularly. I suspect her problem stems from initially getting instruction from someone who does it as a sideline, and doesn't really understand the nuances of proper configuration.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[danvolker]

Dan, you can help her out with that bungee, though. A bungee is a bungee . . . it should not be that hard.

Jax, the issue of how far yours drops down was one thing I wanted to know.
As to the bungee, yes,will fix that, but it was NOT something I could fix during the dive with her, while underwater.
Obviously I will familiarize myself more with how her regs are all wrapped around her as well, so I can better figure out which tank she is breathing out of.....I will be fine with this at the BHB, but without much more development by her, and better configuring, I would want no part of seeing her dive on a normal reef out here..lot less buddying with her!!!!

 

[The Chairman]

HOW about visiting the BHB Park and letting me shoot video of you hunting nudibranchs in Sidemount? It could be a good article for my next issue of SFDJ....Then I just need Jax and TS&M and a few others to add

Sounds like fun! Count me in. I am due for a BHB dive.

 

[danvolker]

Simple answer is yes ... if the rig is properly configured and the diver is sufficiently skilled.

One of my regular dive sites is a bottle field in a flat, silty area where you can easily silt it out with a stray thought if you're not careful. Diving sidemount I can get within an inch or two of the bottom without silting, if I move carefully enough and use just a flicker of my fin tips to maneuver. For some shots, that sort of control is necessary.

Since I like to dive this site solo, before sidemount my options were either doubles or a singles rig with slung AL40. In the latter, getting that close to the bottom simply wasn't an option. I much prefer the sidemount rig because it gives me more control and maneuverability overall than my back-mounted doubles did.

But I'm wondering something else ... I understand that Bob Sherwood is a phenomenal instructor ... but does he dive sidemount? How much does he know about different setups and systems? Seems to me that if you're going to refer someone with sidemount equipment issues to an instructor, you'd choose one who dives sidemount regularly. I suspect her problem stems from initially getting instruction from someone who does it as a sideline, and doesn't really understand the nuances of proper configuration.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Bob,
I guess I was not very clear about what I was thinking....
The whole reason this girl went to sidemount, is that she could not get a harness and backplate to feel good on her--she claimed she was too short for a bp/wing to fit her...and then her "cave instructor" tried, and the doubles, back mounted, still hurt her back. She is one of these divers that also likes to dive a normal vest bc when in single tanks...and she is a PADI instructor herself.
Since I had her sit down next to Sandra, I found that her back length was almost identical to Sandra's... I had a hard time getting Sandra comfortable in her bp/harness myself, given her narrow shoulders and much smaller size than myself...fitting is different, and I am the opposite of a tinkerer....It is not in my makeup to enjoy or be good at tweaking the way a harness fits...I don't like spending my time on this.... I mentioned Sherwood, because he changed MY set up alot, even though I have been diving bp/wings since around 97...., and now my rig feels a lot better....With Sandra, she hated how her Halcyon was when I set it up for her, but now loves the setup as Bob rigged it for her....With this girl at the BHB, I can start by copying the config Sandra now has...tweaking will be by someone else though

 

[The Chairman]

The more I think of this, the sillier it seems. Wearing doubles at BHB is like hunting ducks with a tank. The fire power seems a bit over the top. It reminds me of the story I heard this past summer from Mselenaous. She was diving with a student on the Benwood here off of Key Largo. The two other divers on the boat were in dry suits and slung a stage bottle. It took them a lot longer than Elena and her bikini clad student to hit the water and start having fun. Upon their return, the captain said unequivocally, that he far preferred watching the bikini diver. From what I remember, the other two divers were quite impressed with the students trim and buoyancy.

I guess if it's done as a training exercise there is no harm done. I just like using the right rig for the job.

 

[The Chairman]

The whole reason this girl went to sidemount, is that she could not get a harness and backplate to feel good on her

Not everyone likes the hard plate on their back. I only wear a BP&Wing when I am backmounting doubles. It's the right tool for that job, and I have other tools (BCs) for other jobs. I guess if all you own is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

So you're suggesting she goes back to backmount. I find a certain joy in sidemount that has nothing to do with backmount issues or limitations. I'm thinking that perhaps a better approach would be setting her up with a sidemount instructor who can help her configure her rig properly ... Rob Neto comes immediately to mind, since I took my training with him and found him to be excellent at thinking through how to configure based on body shape and specific preferences. We thought through a way to bungee the tanks that several of my sidemount friends have since adopted ... because they think it's more elegant than what they were taught to do. But of course it works for my Nomad ... might not be the best approach for some other setup.

The biggest problem I see with sidemount at the moment is that it's just hitting "mainstream" diving ... and there's a lot of instructors out there who are taking it up not because they want to dive sidemount, but because they want to add teaching it to their inventory of available classes. Taking a class from such an instructor may introduce you to the basics of sidemount, but it will limit what you'll learn about optimizing how your rig is set up ... because the instructors lack the experience to truly understand the concepts. I suspect this is what happened to your friend ... and the reason why she's experiencing some of these difficulties.

This is also why I think a sidemount class is best taken from someone who dives sidemount primarily ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[idive2]

The BHB is a great place for testing out new configurations. I'm thinking of trying out a few new things there myself.
It does not seem like sidemount would be the most practical for this dive but the bridge is certainly a good place to
try out some new things. I'll keep a watch out for any sidemount divers. There was a rebreather diver there just last
week.

 

[DaleC]

There are several points.

1. You hear DIR ideas like --those in a team should be in the same gear...On seeing all the strange problems she was having with the sidemount system, it would be a mistake to think that a diver in normal backmount would just naturally know how to help with several of the issues this girl was facing.
2. I had thought Sidemount was supposed to be for a cave environment, yet in seeing this in action, even in a video showing it configured properly, the sidemount system appears to me to be more likely to cause silting on a bottom like at the BHB if the diver needs to be very close to the bottom...in this case, looking for nudibranchs, in a cave it could be a restriction...this is more of a question though, it is my expectation from all the posts I have read, that sidemount is quite good for tight areas.. We don't really see sidemount divers in Palm Beach, so this was a new event.
3. From the internet, I have met quite a few very smart people that use Sidemount..so naturally I wanted some feedback from them, given how different this first "in-person" impression of a side mount diver in action was.
4. RECENTLY I switched to double 80's ( back mounted) rather than a lp 120, because it was so well demonstrated for me that for very slow and tight areas, there was much better stability and control with the dual 80's . The more technical or penetration level challenge of a dive, the more this is interesting as a topic to me now( as this is effected by various gear). Where many tech divers in South Florida now practice drills in doubles, at the BHB Marine Park, this is a very silty bottom with one of the highest concentrations of Nudibranchs I believe anyone has ever found anywhere. So divers practicing, can also look for NUdibranchs, especially if they have a photographer with them or have a camera themselves. Getting litterally 2 inches off the bottom without silting has a huge value to macro photography here. I will be interested to see a really good sidemount diver with a camera show up here some day, and to see how well they search around, without silting. I think this would be something I might even want to film, and do an article on.
5. And your observations would be better why?

The above points are valid enough for discussion in themselves but the tone of your OP was to take the worst of one form of diving to elevate another. I could seek out a CF buddy team and make a thread trumpeting the superiority of solo diving (which does happen here true) but very few would buy it. They would simply point out that a poorly trained or equipped anybody is going t have problems - that includes the many people who dive manifolded doubles without being proficient in shut downs. It doesn't make what you are doing inherently better, it just means she needs more experience/guidance.

 

[danvolker]

The above points are valid enough for discussion in themselves but the tone of your OP was to take the worst of one form of diving to elevate another. I could seek out a CF buddy team and make a thread trumpeting the superiority of solo diving (which does happen here true) but very few would buy it. They would simply point out that a poorly trained or equipped anybody is going t have problems - that includes the many people who dive manifolded doubles without being proficient in shut downs. It doesn't make what you are doing inherently better, it just means she needs more experience/guidance.

Dale, when I wrote this, I was honestly thinking about what was wrong with "this girl's" set up, and how it should be in a competent SideMount diver. If you had been at a table with me after the dive, talking, this would have been clear....it was about me wanting to get to the knowledge of how SM is supposed to be, what it would be good for, and what limitations, if any, exist.
Posts on the Internet are not an easy way to communicate tone....I have no axe to grind with SM. On the other hand, I do take issue with someone telling this girl at 5 foot 6 that she is too short to be able to be comfortable in a bp/harness set up...and then selling her on this whole new direction, with no competency in the configuring or training