New Divers Beware: Sketchy dive shop in Cozumel puts profits over safety

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A few more details about the training with Deep Blue. My instructor, I think was a local, nice guy, but there was a definite language barrier and not a lot of discussion other than do this like that. Had I spoke fluent Spanish, I'm sure I would've gotten a lot more instruction and better feedback. In hindsight, getting certified in a foreign country was probably not the best idea.

Also, on Dive 3 my primary regulator seemed faulty and I had to use my "buddy's" the one with the longer hose. That kinda threw me for a bit. The problem remained for Dive 4. My instructor was my buddy for both dives 3 & 4 and all the other experienced divers had their own buddy. In his defence, once at the bottom, he kept a good eye on me and showed me a ton of cool lifeforms. One other thing. When we were filling out my dive logs for the day back in the office, I was told to fill in 60 ft for both dives. It was such a cool dive site, we did Palancar Reef, the gardens I think. This will not stop me and only encourages me to get more experience and dive again soon.:)
 
. The "confined water" dives were in very shallow water in front of Papa Hogs and until then I had not experienced any equalization problems.

Again, I'm not a professional, but I find this interesting. I've done those same shore dives with the shop. It's about 25 feet deep. Did you have to equalize on those dives at all? I ask because everyone's body is different, and the first time I read that I wondered if maybe you had a tolerance to the pressure, and didn't feel the need to equalize being that shallow. When I was much younger, I could skin dive down to 20 feet or so, and never felt the need to equalize my ears. Now, I can't make it to 5 or 6 feet deep without needing to equalize.

That said, another really helpful thing I learned was to start equalizing before your head is under the water on descent. Always very, very gently. In over 300 dives, I've only had a problem twice where I've had to ascend, and it was long ago before I knew this little trick. Since then, never a problem.

-Blair
 
Equalizing was my major concern when I started diving. After I was certified, I went into a pool and practiced different techniques to find what worked for me.
 
It is my opinion,and policy of my shop that OW students be accompanied by a MSDT whose only focus is the students. On the rare occasion where we have both students and certified divers on the same boat there will be two instructors along. After 20 years of doing this I believe that should be the standard, but PADI don't listen to me.

Dave Dillehay
Aldora Divers


This woulda been, shoulda been, coulda been #5 on my post above. On more than one occasion, I've been on the boat and that seems SOP. Last time was at Santa Rosa. The DM was with 3 of us certified divers, and the instructor was with 1 student. Maybe it's not SOP and it was just luck of the draw and what I witnessed. Didn't happen on the OP's trip obviously.

-Blair
 
Yes, I did equalize at the Pier area in front of Papa Hogs. Just once at the bottom, then I was good to go.
 
Gary was super helpful with answering my questions before I arrived and started the referral course. After I injured my ears and couldn't dive anymore, I'd stop by the office and no one seemed all that concerned. They finally suggested going to the DAN clinic and get checked out, which I did. The smartest thing I did was stop diving after the injury. That kinda hurt because I came to CZM specifically to dive.
 
In hindsight, getting certified in a foreign country was probably not the best idea.

Also, on Dive 3 my primary regulator seemed faulty
Well, I'm glad you're OK and still have the desire to dive.

I would stongly recommend more training over in the hot springs in Utah.

About nodakdive question, equalize every two feet as you go down. Yes, start equalizing before your head is under the water on descent.
 
Yes, I did equalize at the Pier area in front of Papa Hogs. Just once at the bottom, then I was good to go.


Ah. Yes. Again, I'm not a pro, but I wouldn't be surprised if you were slowly creating a barotrauma issue. The repeated dives where you were possibly (probably?) waiting until depth to equalize may have been makin' naughty with your ears. By the time you got on the boat, there may already have been slight barotrauma, and if you didn't equalize until you *felt the need*, it was too late.

How many dives did you do at the shore? By that, I mean, got in the water, got out of the water, etc.?

Thanks for the info,
-Blair
 
Apparently, this was dive 3 of 4.

Ok... so here's what should have happened on that dive. At this point, the instructor should be directing you on what you need to do and assessing your performance (and remediating, if necessary), but not demonstrating them - as you should have already been 'taught' these skills.

Perhaps you can indicate what was/wasn't performed:

PADI Instructor Manual 2011:
Dive 3 Performance Requirements

At the surface:
1. Plan dive with dive computer or RDP.
2. Put on and adjust equipment.
3. Perform a predive safety check.
4. Adjust weighting.

Underwater:

5. Descend using a visual reference for control to 6-9 metres/20-30 feet. Use the five-point method.
6. Become neutrally buoyant by inflating the BCD orally.
7. Clear a fully flooded mask.
8. Explore the dive site.
9. Ascend no faster than 18 metres/60 feet per minute while maintaining buddy contact. Use the five-point method.

I did the E-learning and yes, I should've applied what I learned in the class. I'm happy to take my fair share of responsibility/blame for this incident.

It surprises me, when people complain about their OW courses, how they typically fail to raise concerns at the time with their instructors. The OW manual contains a full description of each training dive, as does the PADI DVD/Video - so students should know what skills they should be doing on each dive and how to do those skills. Where there is a deviation from what is expected (as per the PADI materials), then the student can...and should... immediately address their concerns to the instructor.

Yes, people do get 'ripped off' sometimes by unscrupulous dive instructors/operations... and it's important to address this. However, it is best addressed at the time, not retrospectively on the internet. It also unwise to make brash accusations on a public forum, unless you are very sure of the facts. It's easy to misinterpret instruction/safety when you are inexperienced. The fact you felt 'unsafe' or 'unsupervised' does not mean you were. Get some feedback before pointing the finger in blame.

We did NO dive planning whatsoever thoughout the entire course. Never even looked at dive tables or the RDP, only experience was in the E-learning.

That's of concern. As you can see by the performance requirements above - you should have planned every dive in advance. The instructor may set the depth/time, but students should still 'go through the motions' so that they know their end Pressure Group, NDL etc.

As an instructor, I like to encourage students to take more personal responsibility as the course progresses. Whilst supervision and safety is very real, I like the student to perceive that they're 'doing it for themselves'. That puts them into a more confident, responsible and competent position upon graduation. Sometimes even letting a student learn from mistakes or problem-solve, rather than nannying them (provided safety isn't an issue). Holding a student's hand, being 'in their face' and molly-coddling them has counter-productive end results - although I have no doubt that it 'feels' more reassuring for the student. Assuming that the dives are kept very safe and supervised, a student benefits most from the perceived challenge of having to stand on their own 2 feet.

Of course, the student concerned is not well-equipped (through education or experience) to understand how safe and supervised they actually are in those circumstances. Their perceptions, if issues are not raised/questions asked, may not be fair to the instructor concerned. Ask any of my students and they'll probably tell you that I was just a casual observer on their final check-out dive. In reality I am watching them like a hawk and ready to intervene for their safety in an instant.

My point being; leaping onto the internet because of your inexperienced perceptions may be doing a vast injustice to an otherwise very competent instructor. It's important to clarify before leaping to conclusions.

There was no "pre-dive discussion" whatsoever. I had NO IDEA what to expect or what the dive environment was going to be.

That strikes me as odd, because a dive briefing (including required skills) is necessary before the dive. That said, I've seen plenty enough divers miss that information because they were distracted/pre-occupied/disinterested. Again, taking personal responsibility and applying training dictates that a diver shouldn't enter the water unless fully cognizant of the dive plan, the dive site etc.

As far as any "accuracy issues"- my dive computer showed a max depth of 78 ft.

That's a breach of standards then. Can I ask what your reaction was when you exceeded your known recommended depth of 60ft?

Did the instructor maintain a depth of 60ft and you went below him? Or did the instructor lead the way to 78ft?

Whilst it doesn't sound like the case in your circumstance, I know of some instructors who will 'tempt' a diver beyond their planned depth as a learning point on situational awareness and dive management. However, that planned depth shouldn't exceed the statutory max depth defined by the course standards. It'd also be raised as part of a de-brief following the dive.

When we were filling out my dive logs for the day back in the office, I was told to fill in 60 ft for both dives.

That's quite dishonest/unethical of him. It hints to me that he knowingly breached standards and attempted to conceal it.

Out of interest however, what was the instructor's max depth, as per his dive computer?

Until a student is certified doesn't his safety take number 1 priority? He's still in training isn't he?

Absolutely.

I feel that when I continued to signal my ears are not equalizing, him and I should have ascended to the surface, discussed my training and tried again with some reinforcement.

As an instructor, I'd disagree with that perception/expectation. I try to discourage students from automatically resorting to surfacing as a resolution to minor problems. You don't need to surface in order to rectify an equalisation problem. This was an actual open water dive - so multiple ascents/descents can rapidly create an unhealthy 'saw-tooth' profile. In many situations, returning to the surface would/should be the end of the dive - so is to be avoided.

The instructor just continued to signal "equalize" by holding his nose. So we continued to descend.

This is the point that makes me really doubt your claims of 'lack of supervision'. You were in contact and communicating with the instructor throughout the incident. That shows two things; you weren't too far away and the instructor was observing/guiding you.

A lot of people on this thread seem to have made an assumption that the instructor was swimming off and leaving you. I doubted that. I think rightly so.

Was I really supposed to surface by myself?

At no point was 'surfacing' a desired or ideal situation. That's your perception. At no time is a student taught "to surface" as a resolution to equalisation problems. If the instructor was on hand to observe, monitor and supervise you (duty of care), then his expectation would be that you would effect the appropriate solution and continue the dive. There's nothing wrong in that. If you appeared to be in difficulty, then the instructor would intervene.

As I mentioned in my 'hypothetical scenario' earlier - you signalled "I have a problem - my ears - ascend". In line with the taught skill - this wouldn't mean "go to the surface". It would simply mean "ascend until equalisation could be achieved". If that ascent continued after multiple attempts, then the instructor would probably ascend and assist. If the instructor observed that you ascended a few feet, tried again, then re-descended to join him - then it's not unreasonable for him to assume they you dealt with the problem and were ready to continue the dive.

Not having dived ever before I had no other experience to draw upon such as what is acceptable pain and when there is a problem.

At what point in the course did your training allude to any level of acceptable pain? Seriously..... :dontknow:

have not heard back from PADI yet. It sounds like they won't do much if anything.

At most, PADI will just acknowledge your correspondence. They won't inform you of their actions. That doesn't mean they aren't investigating.

This link illustrates how PADI conduct a Quality Assurance investigation: http://www.padi.com/padi/common/pdfs/footer/00143_QASummary.pdf
 
Of course it was Cozumel where this happened. Could have been anywhere. But based on the reputation the area has why anyone would choose to do OW training there and most especially referral dives is nuts. They are known for not following the rules, recommendations, or standards.

I have sent Jim a PM on this, but in retrospect I want to say it out loud.

There are instructors on Cozumel who strive, with each and every student, to do an excellent job. EVERY SINGLE STUDENT. I am one of those instructors, and I don't appreciate being painted with this brush. I welcome you all - students, instructors, divers, prospective students - to read what I and my colleagues at Blue Angel have to say on our website in two documents, one aimed at prospective students and one aimed at referring instructors. Open Water Referrals | Blue Angel Scuba School

I also welcome any instructors who HAVE referred students here (or those who have not, or anyone, really) to provide feedback, to me, on the web, or to PADI. We are doing our very best! We will meet every standard to the best of our ability, and we will strive with every single student to do an awesome job. We want competent, confident divers. And what *I* want is to not be lumped into the bucket of "they suck."

those are my two cents.

kari
 
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