How deep have you gone on air?

[phillybob]

Spinning way off-topic, but...On 'Hooked' there was a show about Bull sharks in a river in Australia that 'learned' to follow recreational fisherman around and steal their catch off the hook.

 

[danvolker]

Spinning way off-topic, but...On 'Hooked' there was a show about Bull sharks in a river in Australia that 'learned' to follow recreational fisherman around and steal their catch off the hook.

OK, to get this back on-topic , for dive sites like the Andy, on air as many of the cobia/bullshark spearfisherman are doing it, the functional IQ of the spearfisherman on these deep air dives may well be somewhat below that of the bull sharks....and the bullsharks may well be learning far more from these interactions than the functionally retarded spearfisherman.

The narcosis level on a 200 foot deep air dive is a wonderful feeling. It spreads over your brain, throughout your body, and you feel like a kid at the junior prom. The buzz helps you to feel "invulnerable", which is likely to be contributing to the massively retarded behavior of shooting at fish inside of a swarm of more than a dozen frenzying bullsharks.

The narcosis when experienced weekly, can create drug addicts; the buzz is so intense, the euphoria so elusive for the rest of each day.
The need for more is enough to overwhelm most other options.
Higher brain functions, which would cause most of us to think about the future ramifications of any action we take, are suspended for these episodes of deep air diving, and the drug addicts with guns would have potentially no thoughts what so ever, regarding the ways they are CHANGING shark interaction with divers.

The addicts do not think about why none of the local spearfisherman made a habit of shooting inside of schools of bullsharks in the old days, and the addicts do not think about what will happen if these now posturing bullsharks begin to learn that divers are rivals that need to be driven off or attacked.

Like heroin or crack addicts, the guys shooting cobia off of bullsharks on deep air dives do not have any thoughts about the well being of others. These guys absolutely could care less about recreational divers who could be injured by altered shark behavior....Like crack addicts, these guys feel their reality, their deep air shooting, is the only thing that matters, and should they read this thread, they would feel nothing but rage that any of us would suggest that what they are doing on their drug of choice, is dangerous and that it should be stopped.

 

[Tortuga68]

These guys absolutely could care less about recreational divers who could be injured by altered shark behavior...

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I have spearfished for more than 30 years..how long have you?
Through the 80's and nineties I did most of it diving with Frank Hammett. Do you think Frank would not understand this either ?


If you shoot in the middle of a big group of bull sharks on a regular basis, you need to know that there is a good chance you will be responsible for changing "shark to human" interaction.....these guys should be considered criminals when diver's begin getting bitten.

Dan:

I have been spearing for longer than you. However, that is not the issue.

As I tried to explain to you, from my understanding, this practice was not too common 10 or 20 years ago, but in the last 5 and definitely in the last 3 years, the popularity of shooting cobia off bulls seems to have expanded hugely. I can only assume that the internet and also the You tube videos showing how effective it can be and that the fish are normally landed and the divers always come back with all their parts (until very recently) have accelrated the spread of this practice.

Of course this is just my perception, but if you have not been actively diving and communicating with the locals about this activity, then stories about your double barrel speargun and Frank Hammett are of limited relevance. That is why i suggested you view some You Tube videos so you can get a better sense for this activity since it seems that you have never done it.

FYI shooting grouper or other fish around the Bulls seems much more likely to result in shark feeding.

 

[scubasteve59]

275' with gauge pegged out in Wakulla Springs Cavern / April 1985 / wearing double 90's on compressed air. Got in there through the company I worked with which was subsidary of Port St. Joe Paper which owned the spring at the time. 4 dives total that year in that magnificant beauty of a spring.....can't remember the deco profile but think it was around 1 hour for 15min bottom time.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

OK, to get this back on-topic , for dive sites like the Andy, on air as many of the cobia/bullshark spearfisherman are doing it, the functional IQ of the spearfisherman on these deep air dives may well be somewhat below that of the bull sharks....and the bullsharks may well be learning far more from these interactions than the functionally retarded spearfisherman.

The narcosis level on a 200 foot deep air dive is a wonderful feeling. It spreads over your brain, throughout your body, and you feel like a kid at the junior prom. The buzz helps you to feel "invulnerable", which is likely to be contributing to the massively retarded behavior of shooting at fish inside of a swarm of more than a dozen frenzying bullsharks.

The narcosis when experienced weekly, can create drug addicts; the buzz is so intense, the euphoria so elusive for the rest of each day.
The need for more is enough to overwhelm most other options.
Higher brain functions, which would cause most of us to think about the future ramifications of any action we take, are suspended for these episodes of deep air diving, and the drug addicts with guns would have potentially no thoughts what so ever, regarding the ways they are CHANGING shark interaction with divers.

The addicts do not think about why none of the local spearfisherman made a habit of shooting inside of schools of bullsharks in the old days, and the addicts do not think about what will happen if these now posturing bullsharks begin to learn that divers are rivals that need to be driven off or attacked.

Like heroin or crack addicts, the guys shooting cobia off of bullsharks on deep air dives do not have any thoughts about the well being of others. These guys absolutely could care less about recreational divers who could be injured by altered shark behavior....Like crack addicts, these guys feel their reality, their deep air shooting, is the only thing that matters, and should they read this thread, they would feel nothing but rage that any of us would suggest that what they are doing on their drug of choice, is dangerous and that it should be stopped.

You sure know how to spin a tale...

FYI much of the cobia off bullsharks actvity is done in shallower water too (70-90).

Freedivers can do it at the surface or just 30-40 feet below. Scuba divers can do it on safety stops as well.

FYI it is referred to as the Ande (not Andy) because Ande Line company was a major sponsor of the artificial reef placement for that wreck.

 

[danvolker]

Dan:

I have been spearing for longer than you. However, that is not the issue.

As I tried to explain to you, from my understanding, this practice was not too common 10 or 20 years ago, but in the last 5 and definitely in the last 3 years, the popularity of shooting cobia off bulls seems to have expanded hugely. I can only assume that the internet and also the You tube videos showing how effective it can be and that the fish are normally landed and the divers always come back with all their parts (until very recently) have accelrated the spread of this practice.

Of course this is just my perception, but if you have not been actively diving and communicating with the locals about this activity, then stories about your double barrel speargun and Frank Hammett are of limited relevance. That is why i suggested you view some You Tube videos so you can get a better sense for this activity since it seems that you have never done it.

FYI shooting grouper or other fish around the Bulls seems much more likely to result in shark feeding.

DD,
I think we are finally getting somewhere with the direction of this discussion.
Frank is the guy who really taught me to spearfish, and the what to do, and what not to do's of this activity.
Anyone who knew Frank, also knows well that Frank was happy to shoot just about anything, and that he was not known for being a conservationist
In fact, he probably had a huge hand in wiping out the jewfish population, as well as many sharks in the 70's and 80's. His generation was taught in school that the ocean was an "inexhaustible" source of food for the planet.
As much of a big time hunter as Frank was, he did not think it was smart to be spearing when there were alot of Bulls around, because even back in those old days, Frank and the other serious hunters all were careful NOT to do anything that would teach sharks that divers meant food. He would never want to give up his catch to a shark, and would not want to be in a position on purpose, where this was likely to happen...In fact, if he thought the shark was going to be taking his fish, and there was no preventing this---he would change the game, by killing the shark.
I am not saying that we should all go around killing sharks....I am saying because he would never feed a shark, or teach bullsharks that divers meant food, that sharks back then never acted badly around non-spearfishign recreational divers. Frank did not foolishly change shark behaviors.

Today, this new practice fails to consider the likely changes in bullshark behavior that spearing among bullsharks can create.
It would be impossible to deny the bullsharks are acting differently at the Andy and the Playground now, then they were 10 years ago.

The change would seem to correlate pretty well with the new practice of shooting in swarms of bullsharks, and this causing them to perceive divers as potential rivals or worse.
I have watched plenty of the videos you are referring to, and the posturing and aggression seems to go far beyond the behavior of the old days--- we did not used to see this kind of posturing and aggression. There was some guy named nelson that used to powerhead amberjacks by the Hole in the wall in the 80's...he had a video showing hundreds of AJ's he and his buddies had hanging by them like banannas, the fish would swim by them, they would powerhead them, instantly string them, then reload and instantlt shoot the next one..the AJ's to be sold for catfood for pennies a pound......the death dealing went on seemingly forever, and they would dispatch sharks just as easily as the AJ's. I was disgusted by the mass killing the nelson creep was involved with, so much that I was speechless after the viewing of the video. But even as bad as he was, he was not changing shark behavior --teaching sharks to think divers meant rivals -- or that divers meant food. I'm sure he killed plenty of sharks, which is pretty ignorant, knowing what we know now---but at least he was not endangering the lives of thousands of recreational divers with his practices.

I am saying that these guys shooting cobia off the backs of bullsharks in big swarms, are a worse evil than nelson was.

 

[Rhone Man]

The narcosis level on a 200 foot deep air dive is a wonderful feeling. It spreads over your brain, throughout your body, and you feel like a kid at the junior prom.

YMMV. I have usually left the happy narcs long behind and am usually pretty deep into the darc narcs at 180 feet.

 

[danvolker]

YMMV. I have usually left the happy narcs long behind and am usually pretty deep into the darc narcs at 180 feet.

On some dives I used to feel anxious around 185 to 210 or so, and then on hitting 250 to 290, it was all prom night and new horizons. The "dark narc" getting eaten up by the "deep narc"

But usually it just felt good the whole way.
On the deco after 25 minutes at 280, the buzz would last throughout the 50 foot stop and 40 foot stop, and you'd be at 30 feet before you really were feeling totally normal and starting to feel like the deco time was getting boring.

This could be like a bunch of drunks talking about how they feel after they chug their first bottle of tequila, and on how many more they can chug before they stop feeling spunky

 

[craig chamberlain]

50.2 metres