first pool session today and some questions

[Frosty]

DD I'm spending my dive time at the moment with mostly inexperienced divers. Its pretty much universal that getting down the first few meters is a challenge.
It seems common to overweight in your first few dives.Also something I've noticed is a number of divers not actually emptying their BCD's completely because of their body position.
If it helps -Im 1.75m (five foor nine) and 76kg (roughly 10 and a half stone) -My first Open water dive I had 10kg with a shorty steamer (3.0mm ) Same dive site I now dive with 4-5kg

 

[vshearer]

To control the kicking, you can cross your ankles and bend your knees just a little bit.
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This is known as the Bristol Palin technique.

 

[clay357]

As you gain a little more experience, you should be able to shed some of the weight. I am 6' 0, 195. For my checkout dives I was in a 7mm with 7mm hood, 7mm boots and 3mm gloves, and I needed 24 lbs. The last time I dove the quarry, in the same gear, I only used 16 lbs. Both times I was using aluminum 80s.

 

[markr]

I have a Henderson 7/5mm semi-dry suit. I'm also 5'10" tall. The last time I used the semi-dry suit I weighed around 195 lbs. So my setup is similar to what your doing. Using a steel 119 tank I could submerge with no lead while the tank was full, but had to carry about ten lbs. to offset the reduction in weight as the tank emptied. One of the key things as several others have mentioned is getting the air out of the suit. Due to the way the suit is designed it traps air more then a farmer john/jacket suit. What I find helps is to get in the water and use my hands to force as much of the air as possible up towards my head wear it will vent through the hood opening. You can also let enough water in to displace the air. The steel 119 I use is around 10 lbs heavier then an aluminum 80 so your probably going to need at least twenty lbs of lead even after you get the air out.

Also, a couple of people have mentioned that once you submerge the water pressure will reduce the buoyancy of the suit and therefore require less lead. While this does happen, you said you were in a pool and my experience with this suit is it isn't going to compress enough at shallow depths to make a difference you'll notice.

By the way even though the semi-dry suit does create a little bit of a problem with trapping air I think it's actually warmer then a farmer john/jacket suit. I've used the 7/5 mm suit when others were using 7mm farmer john with a 7mm jacket so they had a total of 14mm on there torso. They did a lot more complaining about the cold.

 

[markr]

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[devildoc5]

So after the second pool session I can confirm that it was apparently a combination of factors.

First thing I did was switch BCD's to a back inflate style (seems now, after the fact that I was not "able" to completely get all the air out of the BC with the "wrap around jacket style" or whatever it is called where it inflates under your arms and such)

This caused me to sink like a rock. I used 32 lbs of weights this time. 6 on each side of the trim and 10 on each side of the integrated BC.

Third I was OVERLY conscious to make sure I expelled every single last milliounce of air from my lungs during decent before I breathed through the regulator for my first breath.

All of these factors seemed to work well and I hate little to no effort sinking, getting on knees at the bottom, and performing the tasks required.

I think the weights were also in a "better spot" with this BC. They seemed to be a little more tight to my body and more on my hips instead of on my stomach. (that and no instructors added extra weight to one side of my BC )

Only thing I had a problem with was the oral inflation of the BC during the air sharing ascent, however that is because right as I was drawing in a fresh breathe of surface air my "buddy" decided to release me from his grip and I sank, thus inhaling straight pool water into my lungs.

Redid the skill after class with one of the DiveCons and had no problems what so ever. Seems to be getting a lot better know that I have my trim and weight figured out a little bit.

Thanks to everyone for all their advise and assistance with this problem I had.

Got OW dives tomorrow and sunday and then hopefully a C-Card and the beginning of a new passion/hobby/obsession as many have called it....

 

[tstormdiver]

This caused me to sink like a rock. I used 32 lbs of weights this time. 6 on each side of the trim and 10 on each side of the integrated BC.

All of these factors seemed to work well and I hate little to no effort sinking, getting on knees at the bottom, and performing the tasks required.

If you are "sinking like a rock" you have too much weight on for that environment. It may not hurt to shed a few pounds,..... better yet, do a proper weight check before your OW dives, if possible. It should actually be a bit difficult to get down for the first few feet, until the suit/ BC compresses a bit.

 

[spectrum]

devildoc5,

As others have suggested you may in fact have been over weighted. Being your height but not as lean I have to agree that 32 pounds sounds like a lot of weight for a 7/5 full suit, especially in fresh water. I have to wonder if exhaling/relaxing and /or complete venting of the BC were issues.

I can understand adding weight in session 1 just to sink the student to get on with the class and get everyone acclimated. The night should have ended with an objective weight check. More on that here.

A 6 pound offset is more than noticeable and would make it really hard to find balance as a first time diver.

Good job in working through the mask skill. those 15 minutes of underwater challenge are a bellwether of how you'll deal with potential future challenges. There is some downside to breezing through the class unscathed.

Pete

 

[spectrum]

This caused me to sink like a rock. I used 32 lbs of weights this time. 6 on each side of the trim and 10 on each side of the integrated BC.

I agree, in pool depth you should never sink like a rock. Was an objective weight check ever conducted? See link in my prior post. I disdain personal comparisons but this is over 2X what I need after adjusting for an Al cylinder. I'm your height and less trim.

I would also seriously consider limiting the weight in your BC. When you get in and out of your BC underwater you will see what I mean. It's a lot easier and safer if the only weight in the BC is that needed on the upper body for trim. Put the rest on a belt or in a harness. This way, you and your rig are each relatively neutral. Without a full complement of weight your BC will see much less stress and it will be appreciated anytime you need to hand it up to a boat or dock.

 

[devildoc5]

no we have never done a complete weight check. However today was my first OW session and I still sunk like a rock, kinda hit my knees pretty hard on the sand actually. Of course that was after my fins completely shatterred in the surf and I had to borrow the instructors. Talk to the instructor and we both agree that 32 seems to be too much for me. We will adjust tomorrow and work on getting a good weight down.

I have noticed that "life" seems easier with the "new" back inflate BC. It tends to snug the weights in a little tighter and also appears to be IMMENSELY easier to deflate all the way.

Started both dives to day with less air than the other students (instructor said I must have gotten hot fills from the store) so the dive times were cut a few minutes short on my behalf but still went well and seemed to have no real problems performing the tasks.

Other than getting through the surf zone was a PITA! And that was just with little 3-4 ft ankle bitters....

When I got done with the first dive (the one where my fins had snapped in half in the surf zone) the LDS owner was there with another "private" OW class and saw them and told me to swing by the shop later. When I showed up he took my Caravelles that had broken and gave my some nice Split fins for free. Seems as though i have found a good dive shop to partner up with and learn from. All instructors are good and knowledgeable and even show us some "tricks and secrets" and the owner just wants people to be happy with his shop and enjoy going there, doesn't seem to worry about just the bottom line....