Why No Fundies for DIR Agnostics

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There's a short answer and a long answer to that.

The short answer is, well, yeah.
The longer answer - specific to me, bc i assume thats what you are asking - is much longer but in the interest of keeping things positive and not having this devolve, i will be as brief. I addresses this question in large part in the first post of my fundies class report, so I'll not repeat that here except to reiterate there's a difference in being at 30 and 0 degrees of trim, and trying to get to 0 completely threw me off and started a snowball affect. The GREAT news is that my 2nd fundies instructor was able to identify what was going on and give me tools to work through it.

-So you kinda needed a course that got all this under control...
 
Interesting term DIR agnostics.. hmm I guess I would fall into this camp.

I've never sat through a DIR Fundies course, but I think if your diving is compatible with the GUE/DIR gear configuration then it is worthwhile. However there is one hang up I have.

Over the past couple of years I've found that if I require twin tanks (open-circuit), I'm significantly more comfortable in sidemount (I use an Armadillo). I've found it to be much better in water in terms of centre of gravity / center of buoyancy. Easier to haul tanks/cylinders out of my car. Easier on the boat staff to manage. More comfortable to walk around in (centre of gravity closer to middle while vertical so no stooping).

According to the GUE website, I don't think they allow sidemount configuration on courses.
 
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<snipped>. I'm going to bed, I'm diving tomorrow. Should have retired before this post.
 
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You really want to push me don't you? ..........

Not at all. My sincere apologies if it looks like I'm pushing you. But this really shows up the problem, doesn't it? You DIR wizards are leaving human wreckage behind because the bar is so high. The emotion in your post leads me to seek enlightenment elsewhere.

I am truly sorry, Kate.

-Dennis



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A bit harsh, but on second thought, no I'm not going to edit this. GUE has the skills that I crave, but I just can't get though the prickly parts. We aren't all "unbendables". -a few scraps for us commoners...
 
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Dennis . . . there are Fundies classes, and Fundies classes, and although the class itself is standardized, and the criteria for performance are not only standardized but published, different instructors view the class differently and conduct it differently. And no matter what you do with any agency, there will be a human factor that comes into things, too. People are not the same in how they learn, and some instructors have a greater "toolbox" of teaching strategies than others.

Fundies is a class about simple things done precisely. It becomes stressful because people make too much of it, and often expect too much of themselves. Some of the things in Fundies are things you can learn on your own, or at least optimize on your own before the class. Basic buoyancy and stability in the water are among the things you can do yourself, by just doing a lot of diving, and asking a lot of yourself. If you are having serious trouble establishing the solid platform, a Primer or Essentials class may be a better way of addressing that. A good instructor may well be able to look at you and tell you immediately what you are doing wrong, as Mr. Mudry was able to spot what Kate was doing with her legs. You should get that from a Fundies class, too, but it may well be more frustrating, as Fundies really expects to be able to move on from small corrections to the basic stability into additional skills that allow better team functioning, like precise maneuvering techniques and improved situational awareness and communication.

In my Fundies class, skills ranges from a diver with 8 dives, who had serious trouble staying underwater, to a diver with over 300, whose issue was that he dropped his head during valve drills. No one passed, but I think most of us felt the class was well worth having taken, except perhaps for the 8 dive and 16 dive divers, who were rather overfaced. Primer would have been much better for them, but didn't exist then.

I guess what I am trying to articulate is that Fundies can be frustrating simply because it's as good as it is; to make it "unfrustrating", one would have to drop the standards for performance, which would make it not the class it is any more. But within that, ensuring that you take the class from an instructor who views it the way you want it viewed is important. Some view it as a culling process, to determine who is likely to be successful in more advanced GUE classes. Others view it as a chance to teach and nurture and develop up and coming divers. It's not really very difficult to find out how each instructor approaches the class, but you do have to talk to the students privately, because there is a definite reluctance to state anything which might be construed as negative about a GUE instructor, or at least state it in public.

I had a horrible time in my Cave 2 class. I was ill-prepared and picked precisely the wrong instructor FOR ME. I have friends who took the class from the same person and love him to pieces. It IS individual; it always will be, because teaching is a very human thing.
 
......................I guess what I am trying to articulate is that Fundies can be frustrating simply because it's as good as it is; to make it "unfrustrating", one would have to drop the standards for performance......................

I disagree, Lynne.

It is as simple as adding a course that produces perfect trim, buoyancy, and control before a fin ever moves.

-until then,

Most respectfully,
Dennis
 
Dennis,

Instead of worrying so much, why not just come and dive with us? You're in the northeast. Give Bob Sherwood a call and I think you'll see that GUE instructors aren't at all militaristic. Or come dive with us and you'll see that:
a) The internet blows everything out of proportion...ultimately the community is just a bunch of people wanting to have more fun in their diving.
b) The standard for a pass is not "perfect trim, buoyancy, and control before a fin ever moves." A 5-foot buoyancy window means just that.
c) Most of the stuff that seems nit-picky just makes sense in the water.

I'll be at Dutch next weekend if you're around, but after that I'm away for the summer. PM or e-mail me and I'll set you up for some dives with friendly locals, though.
 
Dennis,

Instead of worrying so much, why not just come and dive with us? You're in the northeast. Give Bob Sherwood a call and I think you'll see that GUE instructors aren't at all militaristic. Or come dive with us and you'll see that:
a) The internet blows everything out of proportion...ultimately the community is just a bunch of people wanting to have more fun in their diving.
b) The standard for a pass is not "perfect trim, buoyancy, and control before a fin ever moves." A 5-foot buoyancy window means just that.
c) Most of the stuff that seems nit-picky just makes sense in the water.

I'll be at Dutch next weekend if you're around, but after that I'm away for the summer. PM or e-mail me and I'll set you up for some dives with friendly locals, though.

gsk3,

I visualize the whole course flying past while I obsess on my much needed buoyancy and trim issues. I've seen some of you guys and you are that good. I need a rock-solid foundation first. I believe that GUE-F moves past this one fundamental skill much too quickly for me.

I crave the skills, but remain realistic. I'm still convinced that once buoyancy and control are spot on, I can get the most from GUE-F. Until then, I'd be a charity case or a poser. Not my style.

I came into this honestly and with no bias against GUE. For now, I think that I'll just let it go for a while and give it a good rip when I'm ready. The best part of this whole thread is that I now know what I need to know. Thanks all. I hope the OP got something from this also. -too much time spent on my concerns...

It will happen.

Best,
lowviz
 
I have to agree with TSandM. The instructor makes the difference. I just completed a fundies class last April. Nope none of us passed and we all have to re check. Was it worth the money and a few days of missed pay from work. Yep. Even if I don't re check for a tech pass, I learned a lot. I am more confident in the water and I am a safer diver when it comes right down to it. "You don't know what you don't know". I look back on my short dive time pre GUE and thought wow, I didn't know much. In a nutshell IMO it was a years worth of weekly dive knowledge and skills put into a 40 hour class with an expert instructor to guide me. But wait there's more. You say, he didn't pass the class. Yep, but what I learned in knowledge will keep the "buzzard called panic" that sits on every diver's shoulder, in check. I know like gospel not to dive beyond my training/skill level, EVER!

Ok getting off my box now lol.

P.S. I sorta had a neg feeling about GUE prior to meeting my inst and taking the class. Best money spent (besides a dry suit lol).

Cheers
 

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