Swimming Skills Assessment

[knotical]

Most everyone agrees that divers should be comfortable in the water, but comfort is not directly measurable, so consider a slightly different tangent:

Scenario 1: You fall off a moving boat with none of your gear. Wouldn't you like to be able to swim a distance against a slight current? So a medium-distance timed swim test makes sense to me (time and distance subject to separate debate). But I could care less what stroke or strokes you use (although some are better for seeing where you're going than others).

Scenario 2: As above, but in rough water. Don't know how to simulate rough water, but training in drown-proofing seems appropriate.

I'd require these two skills for anyone on a boat, diver or not.

Scenario 3: Perhaps you surface and the boat has disappeared. It could be useful to be able to swim a significant distance in full scuba gear. So a timed full gear test makes sense to me.

If they pass tests such as these, I'd consider them sufficiently comfortable in the water.

I'd probably add a requirement for rescue divers to include a timed snorkel swim to be able to quickly approach a diver in need.

Don't understand the need for underwater swims for scuba divers, with or without snorkel gear. Perhaps on scuba gear?

Any other scenarios in which you'd need swimming skills? What specific skills and why? How would you test them?

 

[Trace Malinowski]

Trace, I'm confused by this response. If one determines that a particular skill is not important for a particular pursuit, why does it reflect badly on him if he doesn't practice it? Wouldn't one become a more dependable team member if practice time were devoted to key diving skills like buoyancy control, air sharing, propulsion techniques, etc.? If I am in trouble under water, I hope my buddy has the diving skills to help me out effectively. If that diver fails to perform a critical act to help me while under water, it will be of little comfort to me to know, "Well, at least he is a proficient lap swimmer."

John, that is EXACTLY my point. If a diver doesn't strengthen all weak watermanship and diving skills, how do I know he has practiced any air/gas sharing skills if we are introduced after I watched him move not so well across the hotel pool the evening before diving? I decided to pursue this point with PJ as an opportunity to play Devil's Advocate to encourage the average recreational diver to strengthen swimming skills in addition to other key diving skills. As divers, we should strive to become better if not for ourselves then for our buddies.

Most diving accidents will find their way to the surface. When they do, those in the best position to assist or rescue are often divers who are out of the water with their equipment off.

For the DIR crowd, they often will only dive with their buddies or divers with like training and mindsets. They really work hard on key diving skills, but they are not immune from rescue scenarios that may require surface swimming abilities. The training in GUE, for example, is excellent for getting an unconscious or toxing diver out of a cave into the spring basin or bringing a buddy to the shore or boat. But, rescue training within DIR agencies is lacking some key skills. I haven't encountered anything in the training levels that adequately prepares a DIR diver for dive rescue - unless UTD fixed this weakness.

PJ, my posts weren't personal attacks. I saw an opening for an opportunity to discuss swimming as a way to strengthen one's surface rescue capability and took it. I hoped that question I posed to you would stimulate a broader discussion on the board. It wasn't my intent to be taken personally.

 

[boulderjohn]

John, that is EXACTLY my point. If a diver doesn't strengthen all weak watermanship and diving skills, how do I know he has practiced any air/gas sharing skills if we are introduced after I watched him move not so well across the hotel pool the evening before diving?

Well, you could ask him.

So, if you go into a pool area and you see a diver swimming laps, you automatically assume that he must also be practicing his other skills? Forgive me, but the logic in that assumption eludes me.

If I see someone practicing the piano, I don't assume he is also working on the oboe.

The main reason it eludes me is that when I go to a pool to practice my diving skills, I practice my diving skills. I don't swim laps. I have spent many hours in a pool working on diving skills, but I have rarely swum any laps since I got my DM certification.

This Sunday I am planning to spend 4 hours in a swimming pool, along with a bunch of other divers, working on skills. My personal focus will be on handling multiple stage and deco bottles efficiently and effectively. I will do multiple gas switches in rapid fire. I will also go through the usual basic skills to stay sharp. I don't know what the others will be doing, but I since most of them are working on more basic levels of technical diving, I expect to see them working on buoyancy, propulsion, air sharing, etc. I doubt that I will see any of them swimming laps, and you can be sure they won't see me swimming laps, either.

I have too much important diving skill to improve to devote precious pool time to something that will have limited benefit for me.

 

[Frosty]

Isn't swimming such an incredibly BASIC building block to Scuba? I suspect its so basic ,so fundimental that its become overlooked.

 

[pjhansman]

PJ, my posts weren't personal attacks. I saw an opening for an opportunity to discuss swimming as a way to strengthen one's surface rescue capability and took it. I hoped that question I posed to you would stimulate a broader discussion on the board. It wasn't my intent to be taken personally.

Absolutely no offense taken Trace...

I just think that you're judging a book by the wrong cover. My point was that my dislike of swimming in no way impacts my desire or ability to become a better diver. I am very comfortable in the water. I read everything I can on the topic....I've spent (and will continue to spend) many hours in the pool working on buoyancy and trim.....and I dive whenever the freakin' ice gets off the lake, or whenever I can convince my wife that the tropics are calling. I even learn the occasional thing on ScubaBoard.

I'm pretty certain that I won't be the one diving in (without my gear) to rescue anybody....because realistically, that would just provide another person to rescue.

And I'm also guessing that if I grew up with warm salt water on my doorstep instead of ice cold fresh water, then my swimming skills may be more "up to par".

Phil

 

[TMHeimer]

Most everyone agrees that divers should be comfortable in the water, but comfort is not directly measurable, so consider a slightly different tangent:

Scenario 1: You fall off a moving boat with none of your gear. Wouldn't you like to be able to swim a distance against a slight current? So a medium-distance timed swim test makes sense to me (time and distance subject to separate debate). But I could care less what stroke or strokes you use (although some are better for seeing where you're going than others).

Just playing devil's advocate (considering I've been on one kind of boat or another for maybe 52 years off & on now and have yet to fall off one....). Is there no floatation available to toss? Can the boat not turn around and get you? Are you swimming to land? If you're way out and no one sees you or hears you yell aren't your floating abilities more important? But, yeah, I think there should be some kind of reasonably timed test, just because I do (not doing 100 meters in a half hour, etc.).

 

[TMHeimer]

My 2 year old "Swim Poll" on Going Pro says that since passing the DM 400 meter test 43% of pros either don't swim at all or swim very seldom. 24% swim "occasionally". The other 33% are heavily into it for one reason or another. Let's analize.

Possible purposes for swimming and diver swim tests:
1. Shows comfortability in water. Let's negate this, as the "comfortability" definition can be argued forever. "Is free diving a better test for divers?" I've been comfortable in water since age 5 but haven't swam competitively for 40 years. Someone just posted in New Divers that she is a great swimmer but is uncomfortable descending because she is new (lots to remember)... so I guess she's uncomfortable, but a great swimmer.
2. There is a reason somewhere that it is very important that you be a good swimmer if you are going to be a diver...presumably for safety reasons. Why else?
3. There are swim tests simply to see how well you swim, period. Nothing to do with diving. Unfortunately, I personally think this is probably the real purpose.

Now, let's look at the duties of a divemaster. After 1 1/2 years as DMC I have found that there are basically 2 that cover it all:

1. The safety of yourself and others in your charge (obviously, this most importantly relates to rescue situations).
2. Regarding the customers: That things run smoothly and they enjoy themselves.

Obviously swimming has nothing to do with #2. Regarding #1: On an old Going Pro thread we argued at length about whether the DM swim tests were meant to have anything at all to do with rescues. Personally, I think they should, and think they should be revised to reflect that. Some argued that there is a separate rescue assesment--but this has little if anything to do with stamina, swim form etc.--it is basically bringing up an unconscious diver from depth.

But if we negate the "comfortability" thing and the 400 meter swim test has nothing to do with rescue scenarios, then there must be another reason for such a test, one that also relates to DM duties, no? On a tangent, I have asked many times for anyone (especially pros with like 5,000+ dives) to give me one real scenario where a pro would swim out 200 yards, get a diver and tow him back the other 200 without fins (how did you lose BOTH of your fins, etc.--or were they not handy, as taught in Rescue Course?)--no good replies on that yet.

Now, would all you good swimmers out there agree with me on this?: You haven't swam for years. You do recall your former good form and can do it, but your SWIMMING muscles are not what they were. You will surely struggle mightily on either the 200 OW or 400 DM swim tests. If you swim laps regularly, even once weekly, you will probably do OK on them. You can be the most physically fit young person alive but if your excercise routine does not include swimming, you are in trouble with the tests.

Well, I guess those 43-67% of pros (on SB, anyway) aren't worried. Makes you wonder, no? Have the tests more often? Change the tests? Something's amiss the way it is. All of my rant holds true for OW divers as well, it's just that their tests aren't timed (should they be?), and they are only responsible for themselves (and, of course, their BUDDY--now you get into all those legalities questions). Should OW divers also KEEP in swimming shape? How much does it matter if you're "comfortable" in the water. Are you going to fall off that boat with only your bathing suit on?

 

[tkdgodess]

Then you have the "backyard swimmer" I grew up with a pool in my backyard, swimming was taught as a life or death skill. My inwater comfort is second nature. If my kids do what I did in the pool... deep breath. I also did competitive swim as a kid and young teen, and I et easily recall the techniques I'm supposed to use as coached. I recently had a group of all guys out in the openwater... long surface swim. one guy wanted to know how I swam so fast. Do something alot, and being lazy, technique serves me well. I also just taught an OW class with 3 active lifeguards, I can't wait to see how they are in the ocean this weekend for checkouts. Lifeguard/Competive swimmers to old lady scuba instructor. We shall see!

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

Most everyone agrees that divers should be comfortable in the water, but comfort is not directly measurable, so consider a slightly different tangent:

Scenario 1: You fall off a moving boat with none of your gear. Wouldn't you like to be able to swim a distance against a slight current? So a medium-distance timed swim test makes sense to me (time and distance subject to separate debate). But I could care less what stroke or strokes you use (although some are better for seeing where you're going than others).

Just playing devil's advocate (considering I've been on one kind of boat or another for maybe 52 years off & on now and have yet to fall off one....). Is there no floatation available to toss? Can the boat not turn around and get you? Are you swimming to land? If you're way out and no one sees you or hears you yell aren't your floating abilities more important? But, yeah, I think there should be some kind of reasonably timed test, just because I do (not doing 100 meters in a half hour, etc.).

If someone fell off a boat with none of their gear on where I dive, I don't care if they were Michael Phelps, they would be dead in about 15 minutes. The waters on average about 50 degrees sometimes as low as 42 degrees.
Even if they fell in with no fins wearing a full 7 mil suit or thicker they'd be screwed if nobody knew it and kept going. Ever try and swim with thick wetsuit on and no fins? it doesn't work too well.

I know a guy who's wife is a competitive lap swimmer and could probably smoke 90%of all people here on SB, men and women alike.
He tried to get her to dive with him and she went through open water etc. She did it for him more than anything.
She hated it and was on the edge ready to freak at all times while she was under water. On top of the water she loves it, under water is not her thing.

Other people may be opposite.

 

[explorer08]

I am 52 now. I have been a lifeguard for most part of my life. I quited as a lifeguard and a dive rescue team leader in 2007 when I left Germany. When I started scuba diving about 30 years ago, I did it the old fashioned way, with a lot of swimming and snorkeling, so I think I know what I am talking about.

Are good swimming skills and stamina helpfull for scuba diving? - Yes.
Are good snorkeling skills helpfull for scuba diving? - Yes.
Are they necessary for scuba diving? - NO!

Is it necessary for scuba diving to feel comfortable in the water? - Yes.
Is some level of general physical fitness necessary for scuba diving? - Yes.

During my carreer as a diving instructor, I had several students who did very hard to pass the OW swim test, but they became very good divers.

And one of the most important points is to know your limits. If you are not a strong swimmer, may be its not a good idea to dive in rough conditions. Also, if you are not a good swimmer, may be its not a good idea to dive very far away from shore or boat. But if you know your limits and stay within them, where is the problem?

If someone wants to swim for improving his physicall fitness, why not? If he asks me for some advice for improving his swimming skills, why not?

But I don't see having my student divers swimming and snorkeling as a necessary part of my job as a diving instructor. I just do it because the standards of my agency force me to do it.
IMHO its a waste of time during a scuba diving class and its one of the remnants of the "good old time" when every scuba diver nearly had to be a combat swimmer.