Recreational Wreck Diving vs Cave Diving. Why the Inconsistency?

[TSandM]

Right off the top of my head, I can think of three deaths in the last few years involving wreck penetration . . . and you know what? Every single one of them was someone who HAD technical training and/or technical wreck training AND technical wreck penetration experience. Steve Donathan TAUGHT wreck penetration. The guys who died in the Spiegel were trained. IIRC, the guy who died in Nanaimo was, too.

I can certainly remember several cave deaths of untrained divers, but I'm having a hard time recalling any deaths from wreck penetration by people who died because they didn't know anything about what they were doing.

 

[Tortuga68]

I've dived at leat 8 wrecks that have killed divers

Did the wreck kill them, or did they kill themselves?

I view wrecks as unstable caves

Tell that to Parker Turner

 

[String]

Im 100% against any form of regulation. Im a firm believer in personal choice. Anyone can choose to do whatever the hell they want. If thats an open water diver getting a trimix fill and going deep wreck diving so be it - its their stupid call.

However for people that WANT to learn some techniques id argue that the rec agencies courses teach nothing of use.

 

[DevonDiver]

Did the wreck kill them, or did they kill themselves?

I've never met a sentient, sociopathic wreck yet...

 

[DevonDiver]

Im 100% against any form of regulation.

Any form of regulation? Including training standards needed?

 

[SailNaked]

Sometimes I think we argue just to argue. as far as "required" to have training to do anything um, what exactly are the fines again for ignoring the laws you propose?

We are a self regulated activity. So if you want to die in a wreck go for it just make sure you post about it here afterward so we can all learn what not to do.

Sticking your head in a wreck or swimming through a hatch from one open cargo hold to another is not very dangerous and anyone with a mind can assess the risks for themselves and their heirs. imagine all the noobs that blindly follow a DM through the "caves" in Cozumel at punta sur. or worse follow blindly in the Cenotes.

The rec. wreck course has a place, like an intro course, mine included running line, hazard assessment, and a penetration using a line that could easily have been done without one.

We provide courses to allow anyone wanting to learn about a subject the opportunity. you want to penetrate the Andrea Doria with no training then buy a boat, drive out there and do so, you want to learn basic penetration of shallow well lighted wrecks then take the course. and after if you still feel you need it, take a cave course, or whatever turns you on.

Great country we live in, we still have a few freedoms, and for now there are no regulations on diving, lets keep it that way.

Another thread on how the Standards are not good enough.

 

[Blackwood]

Any form of regulation? Including training standards needed?

I think he means from a legal perspective, but I'm not sure.

Devon -

I checked:

Deserves equivalent training standards to cave diving.
Deserves instructors with specific in-depth training.
Wreck penetration requires specialised equipment and procedures.
Wreck penetration is a technical diving activity, like deco, solo or cave diving.
and
Recreational wreck diving should equate in every way to Cavern diving.

But I hesitated on that last one. I mostly agree with your OP, except like Lynne I believe there's potential value in a non-penetration wreck course (albeit one that shouldn't be considered 'mandatory' to dive on a wreck), and like Rhone Man I agree that there are (potentially) benign overheads in wrecks. Whether or not there are benign overheads in caverns I can't say (no experience).

Sometimes I think we argue just to argue.

No we don't.

 

[David_57]

My main diving activity is wreck diving figure I have dove over 200 wrecks have never taken any formal training other than self taught, research and dove with more experienced wreck divers. I slowly worked my way to where I am today started of penetrating wrecks to the extent I could always see my way out and slowly progressed over the years, would always evaluate before I decided to go inside a wreck if I was not comfortable would not let my ego get the better of me and back off. For me cards more courses trying to regulate who can do what is a waste of time as many of the fatalities on wrecks up here were divers who would have gone inside of the wrecks anyway regardless of training and abilities, and how could you regulate who can and can't penetrate a wreck, not like cave diving normally there is only one way in you can put a lock on the cave entrance and or ban lights like the do at Ginny if no certs relevant to cave/cavern diving.

The only person that should regulate you is yourself IMO.

 

[marinediva]

Why can't the wrecks be graded.
This happens in other sports. The Aust Govt, sinks wrecks for recreational use.
They also blow whoppin big holes in their hulls so entry and exits are available at many points within the ship.
Permits have to be sort to dive these sites.
There is considerable difference in say diving the S.S. YONGALA to say the HMAS Brisbane.
Seems to me there will always be risk.
Let the divers make their own decisions based on risk assessment,
rather than a trying to enforce a law (sic) that is impossible to enforce.
Sometimes I get the impression that some people would prefer all divers have 2000 dives, be highly trained in tech, rec, cold and hot water before they even hit the water.
and we know that is never going to happen. Get use to it. Your opinion is just that, an opinion.
They are no more important than any one elses, some just like to think they are.

 

[fnfalman]

My main diving activity is wreck diving figure I have dove over 200 wrecks have never taken any formal training other than self taught, research and dove with more experienced wreck divers. I slowly worked my way to where I am today started of penetrating wrecks to the extent I could always see my way out and slowly progressed over the years, would always evaluate before I decided to go inside a wreck if I was not comfortable would not let my ego get the better of me and back off. For me cards more courses trying to regulate who can do what is a waste of time as many of the fatalities on wrecks up here were divers who would have gone inside of the wrecks anyway regardless of training and abilities, and how could you regulate who can and can't penetrate a wreck, not like cave diving normally there is only one way in you can put a lock on the cave entrance and or ban lights like the do at Ginny if no certs relevant to cave/cavern diving.

If self-learning worked for you then who am I or others to tell you otherwise?

The only person that should regulate you is yourself IMO.

Exactly. There are plenty of excellent schools and courses available for those who don't want to go the self-train route. Even then, the final authority is yourself.