Yukon tangent thread

[TheEngineer]

We get it, laws of physics are different on the West coast, esp. when it comes to you

If this was about physics, I wouldn't have said anything. But it's not. This is about biology. Some people handle cold and heat better than others, that's all. To base rules on one person's biological preferences would make no sense.

 

[Big Toes]

awesome post brandon. i've said it before and i'll say it again; wait until the concrete results are out. speculation starts and rumors follow...

erik

 

[TheEngineer]

I was on the Humboldt yesterday during the mishap. It was great dive conditions. 30 ft of viz, almost no surge. The bottom was at 110ft. The diver that died was using an aluminum 80 on air and was diving by himself. When his body was recovered he had no air left in his tank. The diver seemed intent on photography and was last seen some feet away from the Yukon looking at something in the sand.

Sounds like the owners of the Humboldt have some serious explaining to do. Allowing a man to dive alone, performing photography on a deep dive, and then following it up with no roll call at the end of the dive...that all goes beyond just an honest mistake and ventures dangerously close to gross negligence. This was a tragedy that could have been prevented simply by enforcing the most basic rules of diving.

 

[diverrex]

Sounds like the owners of the Humboldt have some serious explaining to do. Allowing a man to dive alone, performing photography on a deep dive, and then following it up with no roll call at the end of the dive...that all goes beyond just an honest mistake and ventures dangerously close to gross negligence. This was a tragedy that could have been prevented simply by enforcing the most basic rules of diving.

I don't see anything wrong with letting him dive solo or the photography part. Both are not at all unusual out here in CA. I'd informally guess that on any CA dive boat with 20 divers 1 - 4 divers, maybe more, are diving solo. I don't see it being negligent to allow it.

 

[Blue Sparkle]

But why would it be the dive boat's responsibility as to whether he dived solo or took photographs? Beyond checking for an appropriate c-card, wouldn't it be the diver's judgment as to whether and how to dive, once the boat had deemed overall conditions fit to make the trip to the buoy?

 

[Thalassamania]

Maybe we need to bring back J-valves. Or maybe basic rules should be followed. Maybe the idea that 2 weekends of training is enough to be a certified diver needs to be reconsidered.

Divers today are not, as a whole, as knowledgable, physically conditioned or capable as early divers. People think that modern gear can never fail and will hold their hands for them and wind up paying the price for it.

Maybe 2 weekends (or one, for that matter) are not sufficient. What I'm asking about is not directly related to knowl or physically condition, it's the ability to calmly perform a short swim to the surface, in almost all cases way less than 50 yards. I suggest that poor watermanship is at the base of much of the problem.

 

[TheEngineer]

But why would it be the dive boat's responsibility as to whether he dived solo or took photographs? Beyond checking for an appropriate c-card, wouldn't it be the diver's judgment as to whether and how to dive, once the boat had deemed overall conditions fit to make the trip to the buoy?

The boat has every right to deny a diver's request to dive solo, regardless of certification and experience, and many boats strictly enforce the buddy rule. I can't say I've ever been on a boat that doesn't. They are responsible for the safety of their passengers, and if they decide to let someone do something outside of the accepted standards, they can and will be held liable for it. If there aren't criminal charges stemming from this, you can bet there will be substantial civil penalties. You can thank this kind of reckless behavior for the recent increases in liability insurance prices for dive boat operators and the subsequent higher rates that we all pay to use these boats.

 

[Deep-6]

Hey Engineer, welcome to SB. Now that you've gotten your 1st 5 post out of the way, just a little advice. I started with "Hello" , you started with "Are you crazy?" Notice the difference. Secondly, I wouldn't say that Photographers are laxed on their air supply or wreckless. I definately would avoid slamming any dive op that just had an incident. There's more than enough speculation here, without placing blame.

 

[TheEngineer]

Maybe 2 weekends (or one, for that matter) are not sufficient. What I'm asking about is not directly related to knowl or physically condition, it's the ability to calmly perform a short swim to the surface, in almost all cases way less than 50 yards. I suggest that poor watermanship is at the base of much of the problem.

All of it is important. I classify watermanship under physical conditioning, but I agree that it is a skill that is not properly evaluated when people are getting certified by most agencies. Many certified divers these days literally cannot swim. They aren't just poor swimmers, they are people who, without fins and a flotation device, would drown if placed in water deeper than they could stand in. It is unfathomable to me that such people can get a diving C-card, but it happens every single day, and it is becoming more common.

 

[TheEngineer]

Hey Engineer, welcome to SB. Now that you've gotten your 1st 5 post out of the way, just a little advice. I started with "Hello" , you started with "Are you crazy?" Notice the difference. Secondly, I wouldn't say that Photographers are laxed on their air supply or wreckless. I definately would avoid slamming any dive op that just had an incident. There's more than enough speculation here, without placing blame.

If you want, I can go edit my post to read "Hello. Are you crazy?". I have a problem with letting absurd comments go uncorrected...it's a weakness.

Photographers are, in fact, notorious for being lax on paying attention to anything not directly involved with their pictures. I'm not saying all of them are bad divers nor am I claiming that photography in itself is reckless. But it is a condition that should be taken into consideration when doing a spot evaluation of a diver you have never met, especially if they are requesting permission to do something outside the normally accepted standards.

As for slamming the dive operation, I'm not. I have actually heard very good things about them in the past. However, this was an avoidable incident. Hopefully they learn from this and make some changes to avoid letting it happen again.