tangible benefits of BP/W over quality back inflate jacket

[adurso]

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/5431124-post26.html

see this video

 

[flots am]

No, it's because those of us who have used both realize the huge difference a BP/W does make over a jacket BC. This is one of the few gear arguments that really does have a big impact on diving, unlike for example which regulator is the best.

The people who don't dive with any sort of BC might disagree.

Some of the nicest dives I've done, involved only a mask, a steel 45 and a reg.

flots.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

The people who don't dive with any sort of BC might disagree.

Some of the nicest dives I've done, involved only a mask, a steel 45 and a reg.

flots.

There's a lot of merit to this.

I've been experimenting with just strapping on a bare tank onto my back and adjusting my weighting, just like back in the day. Some of you might think I need to have my head examined being a plate designer and all, but just like art, there is always a way to distill something down to the core truth. Maybe diving and art are more related than you think, at least in the philosophical sense and when one chooses to elevate diving to an art form.
But diving with just a tank on your back is about as minimal as it gets. It's kind of a thrill to glide along and think "I really don't need all that crap". Everything you actually really need you have, a tank of air, a mask to see, a reg to breath out of, and fins to go forward. And of course skill, for comfort, safety, and peace of mind.

 

[halocline]

The people who don't dive with any sort of BC might disagree.

Some of the nicest dives I've done, involved only a mask, a steel 45 and a reg.

flots.

Well, that's totally different than comparing a BP/W to a jacket BC. BTW, I assume you used a harness of some sorts to attach the tank, and maybe some fins? If you're advocating diving with no fins, no harness, (maybe just holding the tank in your arms?) then you're probably pretty far out of the norm. And how that somewhat bizarre approach might have the slightest relevance to comparing a bulky, unstable and constrictive (a nice combination, kind of like a greasy and dry hamburger) jacket to a rigid plate w/webbing harness, is beyond me.

This jacket BC vs BP/W argument just goes on and on. Maybe someday I'll have the discipline to stay out of it. Unfortunately, that's not today.

 

[tomfcrist]

IMHO, they both have their place. I use a homemade BP/W on my "Tech" dives, and a Ranger for basic diving(not using doubles). The ranger is far more comfortable to me, but the BP/W is more flexible for a variety of diving. The only thing i dont use is a Jacket BCD.....I hate those things.

 

[flots am]

Well, that's totally different than comparing a BP/W to a jacket BC. BTW, I assume you used a harness of some sorts to attach the tank, and maybe some fins?

I had fins but forgot to mention them. No harness. Just a stage bottle strap.

If you're advocating diving with no fins, no harness, (maybe just holding the tank in your arms?) then you're probably pretty far out of the norm. And how that somewhat bizarre approach might have the slightest relevance to comparing a bulky, unstable and constrictive (a nice combination, kind of like a greasy and dry hamburger) jacket to a rigid plate w/webbing harness, is beyond me.

All the "flaws" you mentioned with jacket BCs are training problems, not equipment problems.

If you're properly weighted, properly trimmed and are wearing a BC of an appropriate size, it won't be "bulky, unstable or constrictive."

It's only "bulky" when you're overweighted and need to inflate it to compensate. A BP/W will do the exact same thing, however you won't see it because it's behind you.

It's only "unstable" when you purchased the wrong size or have the weight distributed improperly. You don't notice this so much in a BP because the harness has less give, but it will wait quietly until you tilt sideways a little too much, then try to "turtle" you.

It's only constrictive when over inflated. If you're constricted underwater, you're overweighted and have inflated it to compensate.

They're both just bags for air and a place for your tank, and I find the nearly "religious" fervor over BP/W's to be absolutely facinating.

flots.

 

[Hatul]

For warm-water diving I'd pass on the Ranger and get the Stiletto.

Adam

 

[ronscuba]

All the "flaws" you mentioned with jacket BCs are training problems, not equipment problems.

If you're properly weighted, properly trimmed and are wearing a BC of an appropriate size, it won't be "bulky, unstable or constrictive."

It's only "bulky" when you're overweighted and need to inflate it to compensate. A BP/W will do the exact same thing, however you won't see it because it's behind you.

Not all rear inflates are the same. Some rear inflates are loaded with storage pockets, big weight pockets, D-rings, cummerbunds etc.. I dive a Transpac. It's basically a soft plate BP/W. Like a BP/W you can set it up to have as many or as little accessories as you like.

I agree with you that jacket BC's are not flawed. I've rented jacket BC's a few times and never had any problems with my trim or stability.

However they did feel bulky compared to my Transpac. Inflated or not, you have this hunk of stuff all along your ribcage with jacket BC's. Inflated, I didn't get squeezed, but it did feel even more bulky.

 

[halocline]

All the "flaws" you mentioned with jacket BCs are training problems, not equipment problems.....

They're both just bags for air and a place for your tank, and I find the nearly "religious" fervor over BP/W's to be absolutely facinating.

flots.

We could argue about this day and night, but I have extensive experience diving with both a BP/W and a jacket BC, and I'm a well trained diver. I know the differences from personal experience. If you're not able to perceive them yourself, well, that's your experience, not mine.

Nobody said it's not possible to dive with good buoyancy and trim in a jacket BC, and it's not any sort of 'religious fervor' as you mention. It's just honest, accurate perception based on years of experience. A rigid plate with a simple webbing harness works much better for diving than a jacket BC in my experience. It has nothing to do with training, although certainly buoyancy and trim are primarily functions of training and practice, and only secondarily equipment.

 

[Mr Carcharodon]

I'll sell you my Ranger cheap, which has not been in the water once since I got a BP/W.