PADI/NAUI Interaction

[muddiver]

I think part of what you are missing here is that the Divemaster/Dive Con courses are loaded with agency spacific instruction on the standards, paperwork, teaching methods and other stuff that is not interchangable between agencies.

It is not all about how to be a good guide on a dive or who to be a commanding presence on the deck of the dive boat.

Also, PADI will get you there faster, but NAUI will give you the knowledge and mentoring to be effective. I am still trying to figure out SSI and ANDI.

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Also, PADI will get you there faster, but NAUI will give you the knowledge and mentoring to be effective. I am still trying to figure out SSI and ANDI.

I would like to see the standards you are basing this statement on. I thought we had established in zero-to-hero threads than NAUI actually has no minimum number of dives or minimum time from OW certification standards to become an Instructor, so are not NAUI DM requirements similarly unspecified?

 

[Walter]

Written standards will not help with that decision much.

I disagree. Standards vary a great deal from one agency to another. One agency's standards may fit your philosophy quite well while another's won't.

What matters is how those standards are understood and applied.

I do agree some are written to help people understand what they mean while others sem to be written to confuse.

In the context of this thread though, it seems that if I were looking to become a working divemaster, I should absolutely do it through PADI, even if I hated the PADI instructor and loved the NAUI instructor.

I don't understand that statement. We've not discussed anything of substance about any agency.

 

[cerich]

I would like to see the standards you are basing this statement on. I thought we had established in zero-to-hero threads than NAUI actually has no minimum number of dives or minimum time from OW certification standards to become an Instructor, so are not NAUI DM requirements similarly unspecified?

that is false, you need to have 50 dives to be a NAUI instr., which is less than PADI in dives. The academic is slightly more rigorous than PADI however based upon my experience and the related views f every PADI Instr I have done cross overs to NAUI for.

Regardless a new instr from either agency is quite competent to conduct training, both agencies do a good job.

 

[aquaregia]

I think part of what you are missing here is that the Divemaster/Dive Con courses are loaded with agency spacific instruction on the standards, paperwork, teaching methods and other stuff that is not interchangable between agencies.

Sorry, I wasn't clear.
I had expected that NAUI would only accept NAUI and that PADI would only accept PADI, for all of those reasons. What surprised me was that although PADI would only accept PADI, NAUI would accept both PADI and NAUI.

In the context of this thread though, it seems that if I were looking to become a working divemaster, I should absolutely do it through PADI, even if I hated the PADI instructor and loved the NAUI instructor.

I don't understand that statement. We've not discussed anything of substance about any agency.

Despite anything contained within the courses, if I am to choose between being able to assist only a NAUI instructor or being able to assist either a NAUI or PADI instructor, the second option gives me more career opportunities.

 

[Thalassamania]

Basically, NAUI trusts it's members. The assumption is that if a person is certified at a leadership level and, in the judgment of the NAUI Instructor is capable, go ahead and use them.

 

[Walter]

Despite anything contained within the courses, if I am to choose between being able to assist only a NAUI instructor or being able to assist either a NAUI or PADI instructor, the second option gives me more career opportunities.

Most folks teach longer than they assist. NAUI would allow you more leeway in who you use as an assistant.

I honestly see this as an extremely minor point. I've rarely had a need for an assistant because I am philosophically inclined to teach small classes.

 

[muddiver]

Sorry, I wasn't clear.
I had expected that NAUI would only accept NAUI and that PADI would only accept PADI, for all of those reasons. What surprised me was that although PADI would only accept PADI, NAUI would accept both PADI and NAUI.

Despite anything contained within the courses, if I am to choose between being able to assist only a NAUI instructor or being able to assist either a NAUI or PADI instructor, the second option gives me more career opportunities.

Going PADI will solve the delimma you are in. I happen to be a PADI DM only because one of the diving professional that I assist is a PADI instructor and he invited me to participate in a very slective DM course.

Because of my knowledge and experience outside of the PADI sphere of influence I assist with many other classes and courses by other agencies. It has never been a problem, but I am not the average recreational scuba Divemaster canidate either.

I also suspect that if an Instructor really likes your style and thinks you are on track, he will find a way to get you cross certified to cover the legality so you can assist him.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

First off, let's define some terms here ... because the PADI and NAUI leadership progressions use some same terms to mean different things.

PADI leadership progression is ... divemaster (DM) -> assistant instructor (AI) -> open water scuba instructor (OWSI) -> master scuba diver trainer (MSDT)

NAUI leadership progression is ... assistant instructor (AI) -> divemaster (DM) -> instructor

So a NAUI AI is at a similar level to a PADI DM ... and a NAUI DM is somewhere between the level of a PADI AI and OWSI ... and a NAUI instructor is at the level of a PADI MSDT.

So comparing a NAUI DM to a PADI DM isn't really analagous ... the NAUI DM has received more training and is allowed to do more things, including teaching and supervising at levels that a PADI DM is not.

As to the original question ... my understanding was that a PADI instructor could use a NAUI DM as an assistant, but it wouldn't count against the student to staff ratio. I know that in 2003/2004 when I was a DM I assisted two PADI instructors with several classes ... they just had to make sure they had adequate PADI staff to meet the ratios. Since both of these instructors preferred plenty of help (typically 2:1 ratios) that was never an issue.

As noted ... it's a simple enough matter to cross over from one agency to another. If you're looking to make a career out of scuba instruction (something I would counsel you to really research before committing yourself), then I know a few instructors who become and remain certified to teach for more than one agency.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

, you need to have 50 dives to be a NAUI instr., which is less than PADI in dives.

... and a NAUI instructor is at the level of a PADI MSDT.

If one is ethical, to become a PADI MSDT, the very quickest zero to grade 2 PADI super hero I could imagine would take 7-8 months.

Certified Diver for at least 6 months before attending the IDC.

If you take MSDT Prep right after the IE (which required 100 logged dives) you get something like 5 morning Academics sessions on how to teach the Specialties, make about 10 dives being shown how to and practicing teaching the Specialties and show log book history of at least 10 dives each of ONLY 5 Specialties (dives can only be counted once? does AOW Deep count as a deep dive for Deep Specialty Instructor?).

Or, you have log book history of 20 dives each of 5 Specialties and promise to follow the Course Outline (dives can only be counted once).

Then you need to be the Instructor of record for 25 certs; the yellow brick road might be something like diving just the 4th dive for 4 classes of 4 students and teaching 9 Academics only Nitrox Divers. If you followed all the minimums and got your 25 certs recorded with PADI in the month following MSDT Prep, you could send in your MSDT Application ~ 7.5 months after initial OW Certification with 130-150 dives under your weight belt.

Do I need to already be a diver to attend?
No. We offer a program for you to get certified before the start of your program.

How many dives do I need?
To attend the TIP, you need a minimum of 50 logged dives. Our facility allows you the opportunity to log many dives while you are here.

What can I teach after I graduate your program?
All the basic recreational courses including Scuba Diver, Advanced, Specialties, Rescue Dive and Leadership level courses.

The above quote is from the page linked below;

Scuba Instructor Training, NAUI Instructor School, Becoming A Dive Instructor

So someone who follows the quickest path to Instructor with NAUI could be Instructing the NAUI Deep or Wreck Specialties only a month and 50 dives after starting their OW course; with possibly no wreck dives and less than a handful of deep and night dives combined.

At just one month / 50 dives, a NAUI Instructor could teach way more Specialties than nearly every PADI MSDT, so obviously NAUI Instructors must be at a higher level than PADI MSDT's.