Diver Accident Death

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Status
Not open for further replies.
NLB I'm sorry you dont get it. You could have went to Opal direct and asked her why. Speculation as to why will not be said by me. Find out from her if this disturbes you to the point of spoiling a condolence thread.
I do hope your holiday finishes well. And that this tragedy doesnt SPOIL your holiday.
I am done responding to this thread.
Moderators please close it so disussion can be done on the new topic.
 
Thanks for the good wishes DiverG. After the vitriol expressed here because (like you) I said I would have preferred to hear about this accident, and the knowing comment from somebody that "Opal will talk to me but don't repeat anything," I'm on the fence about continuing to dive.

You are absolutely correct that I like the operation aside from the items you mentioned. I made that clear early on here. With good business partners just as with good friends, one should feel comfortable about opining that something concerns you.

Well I do think you should have talked to Opal first about your concerns. Maybe if you had done that her explanation would have satisfied you. As far as not continuing to dive with the operation that you admittly like so far why should comments from people on a message board decide that for you? I know Opal and love her and her operation. I think when/if you talk to her she'll let you know her reasoning for doing it the way they did it. You may or may not agree with it. Then you can decide what you are going to do.
 
Firstdive2005 said: "NLB I'm sorry you dont get it." I'm sorry that you appear unable to tolerate viewpoints differing from yours. Because I disagree with you doesn't mean that "I don't get it."

DiverG, my worry about diving further with Scuba Mau arises out of the sense that SM and Firstdive2005 have -- obviously -- been communicating about me, and that the hostility from Firstdive, and perhaps others, may be coming in part from SM.

As for firstdive's instruction to the mods to close this thread, I think it would be inappropriate to close a thread about a diving accident because somebody doesn't like an opinion that's been ventured on the thread. Again, my understanding is that the owners of this forum are involved in bet-your-business litigation to protect the right to discuss diving accidents here.
 
As for SM's instruction to the mods to close this thread, I think it would be inappropriate to close a thread about a diving accident because somebody doesn't like an opinion that's been ventured on the thread. Again, my understanding is that the owners of this forum are involved in bet-your-business litigation to protect the right to discuss diving accidents here.

First of all as the thread starter I believe firstdive2005 can request his thread to be closed. Secondly, he has a close relationship with Opal as he has been diving with them many times over the years including before SM started their own dive op. Third as it often does on scubaboard and many others message board a thread strays off topic. firstdive request that this thread be closed becase it started off as a condolences thread and now it has evolved into how the dive op should have done this or that. This isn't the thread to do that.

There is nothing stopping you from starting your own thread on what this dive op or any other should do in similiar circumstances. Heck I wouldn't be surprised if this hasn't been done sometime in the past. It might even be a good thread to start with a lot of discussions on both side of the fences.

As far as continuing to dive with them or not that is your choice. Not sure how many more dive days you have left on your vacation, but if you choose to move on there are plenty of other dive ops to choose from to finish your trip.
 
NLB, the accident was in at least 3 Cozumel papers the following day. That's where I found out about it. (There's 4 papers that I know of that are online and if you don't read Spanish you can view them in English with any web browser translator). Deaths and accidents to divers, snorkelers and swimmers as well as tourists involved in any kind of accident are reported in their papers when they happen. Considering the story had slight variations in the different papers, and that no details of the divers medical history or actual cause was known at the time, I'm really not sure what exactly you'd want the shop to tell people. All announcing this tragedy to customers would do is raise questions to which they had no answers, and cause speculation dn unwarranted concern about the shop and its staff. And quite frankly, I don't feel it's their place to discuss it with anyone. It's a private matter for the family.

If a shop or its staff are negligent and their actions directly result in injury or death of a diver, then yes, I would absolutely want to know about it and that would definitely factor into the decision of whether or not to dive with them. An unavoidable medical issue and resulting tragedy has nothing to do with what shop someone was diving with and if owners or staff started telling everyone about it, I would actually see that as being somewhat unprofessional on their part.

I'm in EMS and part of a dive team. Most of what I see and hear never makes the news and nobody other them those immediately involved or on-scene even know about it. That's the way it should be. Anything other would show a lack of professionalism and a lack of respect for the victim/patient and their families.

Also, as an aside, read the fine print with cruise lines and resorts. Just because they don't put a piece of paper in front of you sign doesn't mean you aren't waiving liability on their part. Even with the waivers we all sign to dive, how many people really check off everything that's applicable to them? If you look at those forms you'd think divers are the healthiest bunch out there - never any sinus, allergy, ear issues, we never take any medications, have no medical conditions and have never had any kind of surgery....

DMs are guides. Most do assist their customers to the best of their ability if there's any distress, panic or other problems. But they don't have a leash on each diver and aren't babysitters. A really hard part of any rescue situation, is the rule that you don't put yourself in a position of becoming another victim. Stopping someone who's making too rapid of an ascent you really have to be careful and recognize that if they get too far ahead of you or you can't control them, continuing the pursuit could put you at risk for serious injury or death. A choice you never want to be faced with, but the reality is that you'll be more useful to the victim if you make a safe, controlled emergency ascent and tend to them when you get to the surface, even if it's not immediately with them.

From the accounts I've read, the crew and people that met the boat at the beach did everything they could. I hope you are never in a situation like this in any capacity, but if you ever are, you'll look back at this incident with different feelings I'm sure. I have no doubt that all involved, and even bystanders who witnessed it all, have spent a lot of time second guessing their actions and playing it back in their minds thinking if there was anything else they could have done even though logically they will know there wasn't. It's hard enough to deal with and they don't need a customer who feels he should have been more in the information loop beating them up. While you're feeling disgruntled because nobody told you, there was a family who lost a father.

IMO, the shop showed good judgement and a lot of professionalism in a very difficult time. They had a commitment to their customers, put a smile on and made sure that vacations continued as planned. I wouldn't think for a minute that that was easy for any of them but it was the right thing to do.
 
Last edited:
NLB,
I have followed this thread with very little comment. You are certainty entitled to your feelings and opinion. And you had rather been told about the incident. That seems like a fact. On the other hand it looks like a large majority of posters had rather NOT be told of the incident during their vacation. I my opinion it seems as though the dive shop made the right decision for the majority of their clients. I pray that SM or any other dive shop never have to make that decision again.

Again, our thoughts and prayers go out to the families involved.
 
Scubawife, thanks for the thoughtful response. I haven't suggested that SM did anything wrong with regard to the attempted rescue of this diver. I do also want to respond to this assertion: "It's hard enough to deal with and they don't need a customer who feels he should have been more in the information loop beating them up. While you're feeling disgruntled because nobody told you, there was a family who lost a father." I haven't been "beating" anybody. I expressed an opinion, and it's one that I know others who have not posted here share. Since then, I've been set upon by an angry group of friends of the dive shop (and a few others) for daring to suggest that it would have been the wiser course to tell folks on the next boat out that something had happened.

I understand the arguments for keeping mum about the accident. As I mentioned in one of my earlier posts, I can see that it was a tough call for the shop. With that said, I think it was the wrong call.

A family did lose a father, and as I mentioned in my first post, the story gives me pause in thinking about diving with my own daughter (with any diveshop). Other divers have families, too, nd I think most divers -- and especially their non-diving family members -- would want to know if a diver died on the last boat out.
 
Llyod am glad that you can see the other side of the argument. You disagree with SM side while others agree. Hopefully, you have talked to Opal, and you both understand each others differing views.

You are in Cozumel in the prime time of day for diving. Forget about the messageboard for a bit and go diving and have fun whether it be with SM or another dive op. I know I would rather be diving if I was in Cozumel.

I will be in Cozumel next Saturday with 19 other divers in my group diving with SM. Well I hope to be there as I suffered a deep gash on my leg requiring 7 big stitches on June 19. It is healing, and I think/hope it will be healed enough for me to dive by next week.
 
Notlloydbridges, You were not set upon by an angry group of "friends of the dive shop". You were "set upon" by several of us who know that the dive shop in question is a very professional dive shop that besides having an incredible operation from a safety and standards point of view are known for their people skills and communication and the care they show towards all their divers. Ofcourse their are different opinions about whom should have been told what and when but these are nothing but opinions. Unfortunately it was the dive shop that had to deal with the devestating events and in their wisdom (and I personally do believe it was wisdom) they decided that the information would not be disseminated immediately.

This discussion could go back and forth for ever. I personally do not feel that anything was to be gained by the wholesale release of the information. If you think it was your right to know, is it just dive shops or should the information be attached to ambulances so that you have the right to turn away an ambulance that lost a patient earlier. Or should I perhaps as a doctor announce to all my patients that I lost a patient earlier today so that they can decide if they want to continue on with me - these are just questions that I dont know the answer to. All I know is that for myself, if I was diving with SM right now, I would be comfortable with what ever decision they made and the last thing I would be doing is adding to their stress by getting upset by the fact that I wasnt told.

Perhaps we will need to agree to disagree but yet unite in the fact that right now there is a family of a diver and a scuba family (all at scuba Mau) that deserve our prayers and support for the terribly difficult time that they are going through.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom