Why dive Deep Air?

[PfcAJ]

Unfortunately, diving deep air (END >100 or so ft) can affect more people than just you. Someone has to recover your body, it puts the spotlight on a negative aspect of diving, your family suffers, the dive op can suffer, and in the case of cave diving, sites can be closed by the government or landowners.

Diving deep on air is more like driving drunk than anything else. The drunk more often than not seems to think he "feels ok" and "can handle it". This deep air training (which is criminal, imo) is like telling someone to cover one eye when drunk. Right...

Diving without incident is NOT the same as "safe" (despite the claims of others). People routinely think they do things that are safe, but aren't really safe. Don't believe me? Ask these guys:
Heywood Day, 140' 1962, Ron Hughes, 150' 1963, Paul Giancontere, 200', 1965 Brend Joost, 160', 1968, Stephen Alexander, 210', 1969 Pat McIntree, 150',1969 Brett Naisbet, 150', 1969 Wayne Dillon, 210', 1969 Francis Wilson, 160', 1969 Paul Bartlett, 140', 1970 Robert Causey, 180', 1970 Bud Sims, 300', 1970 Fred Schmidt, 150', 1970 John Cruselle, 180', 1971 Frank Martz, 300', 1971 Robert Vaughn, 200', 1971 Doug Deurloo, 150', 1971 Ray Elman, 260', 1972 Alex Nesbitt, 200', 1972 ThomasCranmer, 200', 1972 Paul Dietrich, 240', 1972 Dan Cole, 220', 1972 Rich Broman, 140', 1972 Stephen Millott, 250', 1973 Christine Millott, 250', 1973 John Bockerman, 250', 1973 Gordon Roberts, 250', 1973 William Smith, 200', 1973 MelvanTillman, 150', 1973 James Waddington, 140', 1973 Robert Wyatt, 210', 1973 Deane Valentine, 190', 1973 George Van de Nord, 190', 1973 Paul Reinholm, 170', 1974, 1974 Dana Turner, 290', 1974 Charles Barone, 180', 1975 Daniel Howard, 180', 1975 Steve Herman, 180', 1975 Mike Goddard, 170', 1976 Arthur Williamson, 140', 1976 Sven Sorenson, 140', 1976 William Wood, 180', 1978 Carl Miles, 180', 1978 Terry Collins, 260', 1981 James Bentz, 260', 1981 Bill McFadden, 200', 1988 William Cronin, 140', 1988 Kenny Potts, 200', 1990 Lloyd Morrison, 250', 1990 Billy Liiard, 180', 1991 Ormsby, John 230' 1985 Feldman, Steve 235' 1991 Soellner, Ed 145' 1992 Rouse, Jr, Chris 235' 1992Rouse, Sr Chris 235' 1992 Santulli, Robert 220 1992Sheck Exley 400' aed, Nick Commoglio 450 Rob Palmer last seen 110 meters, Rob Parker 250' Ed Suarez 250' Carl Sutton 280' Legare Hole 240' Andy Bader 240' Craig Swaverly 275'.

That is an incomplete list and does not include more recent fatalities. Some of those guys were amazing divers (Bill McFadden, the Rouse's, Sherwood Schile, Sheck Exley) and yet, they encountered problems and were unable to overcome them. Even more people have had issues at depth and narrowly missed death. The poor guy down on the Speigel comes to mind as a great example. He was diving deep (narc'd) and ran out of gas, rushed to the surface, and is now in a wheelchair.

Diving deep means you use your gas MUCH faster, and as such, you have far less time to deal with issues. Combine the ticking clock and haze of narcosis, and you've got a real issue on your hands.

Today, we know better. Early introduction of helium is not the boogey man it once was.

 

[elmer fudd]

I had a period of a few years in my life when I was a drunk. When you drink every day, you often learn to do things well enough even in a drunken state. I remember one night being given a ride home by someone who was trying to help me out. Unfortunately, she was probably the worst driver in the state of Washington. Halfway through the drive I asked her to pull over and let me drive. Even three sheets to the wind, I was a better and a safer driver than she was. That's not an exaggeration either. She was downright scary behind the wheel.

That doesn't mean it was a good idea or very responsible for me to drive drunk though, only that some people can still function reasonably well even when they are seriously impaired.

Narcosis seems to be the same way. I begin to notice it at about 100'. Come 130' it's really kicking in, especially if I have been doing any finning. Now, I'm sure that with enough experience that many people can learn to function in spite of it, and I'm sure that there are plenty of people out there who are better divers on air at 200' than I am on nitrox at 60'. I'd guarantee you that they are better divers at 60' than they are at 200' however.

For me it's just not worth the risk. Diving's risky enough without feeling plastered at 160'. I wouldn't criticize an experienced deep diver who feels otherwise though.

 

[DCBC]

People routinely think they do things that are safe, but aren't really safe. Don't believe me? Ask these guys...

What is and what is not an acceptable risk for a person is not for you or I to decide. I could make a list of diving deaths for wreck diving, cave diving, ice diving, decompression diving, etc. So what? It just confirms the risk that we are all aware of before we do those activities.

If you want a really safe sport, take up golf. Don't be surprised however that someone posts a list of people who have died on the golf course to convince you of how unsafe it is.

We all are going to die. Personally, I'm in no rush, but when I do go, I'd like it to be doing what I love, rather than die in a nursing home crippled with arthritis, but that's me. Whatever you do in diving, do it as safely as you can; get proper instruction and experience first. Once trained, insure that you have a proper plan and are equipped properly; enjoy!

 

[Bob DBF]

Diving deep on air is more like driving drunk than anything else.

From which I assume you are implying that drunk drivers kill people, which is true, but you overlook the large majority of fatal accidents (80%) in which the driver is not drinking. Obviously they were impaired as well but there is no convenient label with which to demonise them.

The real question is how much control should one man have over another. Personally I do not believe in slavery. (See how one word can taint the actual discussion.)

'92 was the last year and you listed 8 fatalities, during the period '92 to '03 there were on average 86 scuba fatalities per year, 93% were not on deep air. With this in mind I would try to reduce the majority of fatalities rather than focus on "amazing divers"(your quote) that have decided to take a different path than you.

I do not dive Deep Air but when I am deep and feel the onset of narcosis I either finish my plan or head up depending how it hits me, but I get slightly paranoid and very carefully and I thank god the SPG came into recreational diving. My point is that everyone should be able to plan and execute their own dives.

To quote DCBC "What is and what is not an acceptable risk for a person is not for you or I to decide." The fact that there 119 fatalities each day on the highways puts in perspective the risk management you need before you even get to the dive site.

Bob
-----------------------------------
I may be old but I'm not dead yet

 

[adm3745]

From which I assume you are implying that drunk drivers kill people,

Drunk drivers only kill people because there are alot of other people on the road. A drunk driver would get home fine if there were no other cars on the road or stimuli to interfere with him. He'd look pretty stupid and ridiculous probably from an onlooker but he would get home.

 

[jpbutler]

Diving air or nitrox, sometimes at 125-130 feet I will get the "wawas" and/or start feeling paranoid like maybe there is a shark following me or I will get the what ifs? Like what if I have a free flow, will I be able to isolate the valve etc.... I usually end the dive soon after, if I can't set my thinking right. This doesn't happen right away. Probably after 20-30 minutes of diving. Doesn't happen often either. I can't predict when this will occur. Now, occaisionally I will add 10% helium on these dives. Especially if I tie in. What I do notice is that even that small amt of helium makes my head clearer.

I have dove in the 150-170 foot range maybe 20 times on air. I don't like it and remember very little about those dives. I learned ways to mitigate the effects of narcosis as much as was possible. But, it was trial and error and took time. I have no faith in my ability to "self rescue" at this depth on air. I know that other divers can and do operate better at these depths on air. I am not one.

I have since dove those dives and deeper ones on trimix and would rather miss the dive then do them without helium. I don't trust my abilities on air below about 150' and I really want to remember the dive for later. After many dives at different END's, I now set an END of 120-130 feet max.

I would love to hear more real world reasons why people dive the mix they dive. This could be a great topic if the religious zealotry and ego's could be removed from the conversation.

JPB

 

[ianr33]

Unfortunately, diving deep air (END >100 or so ft) can affect more people than just you.

This deep air training (which is criminal, imo) is like telling someone to cover one eye when drunk.

So you are saying that all the dive agencies (except GUE/ UTD ) are behaving in a criminal manner by taking divers to over 100 feet on air ???

This may come as a shock to some but IMHO 120 feet on air in warm blue water is not exactly a Big Deal

 

[adm3745]

I would love to hear more real world reasons why people dive the mix they dive.

I'm forced to dive nitrox still because none of the agencies (except gue) introduce helim early. I've got maybe 30 dives from last year below 120 on Nitrox going as deep as 160. I will not go deeper without Helium. I hate even going to 120 without Helium. Between saving up money for my Trimix course, and through to full cave courses, the trimix course has taken a back seat so I won't be able to take it for around a year. Until Then I won't skip out on the 120-130 ft sites.

 

[ianr33]

Diving air or nitrox, sometimes at 125-130 feet I will get the "wawas" and/or start feeling paranoid

What do you understand the "Wawas" to be ?

 

[ianr33]

I would love to hear more real world reasons why people dive the mix they dive. This could be a great topic if the religious zealotry and ego's could be removed from the conversation.
JPB

If I'm diving the local mudhole deeper than around 130 I will use some helium. Its cold and dark with lots of entanglement hazards.I know from experience that deeper than that I start to feel paranoid.
Anytime I have been below 110 in a cave it has been on Trimix. I want to have a clear head for navigational decisions and/or emergencies.
For both of the above helium is readily available and relatively inexpensive.

Diving in perfect conditions (Cayman/Bonaire) I'm fine with doing 160 on air. I'm not as sharp mentally as I would be on Trimix but thats acceptable to me. Its easy to ascend at any time and a Trimix fill in those locations is around $100