The "Official" SB Scuba Course?

[DCBC]

Oh, and speaking of opinions. The ones with the biggest ... "opinions" ... aren't always right. R..

That's true, nor are they always wrong.

 

[The Chairman]

A long class doesn't make it a better class. It just makes it longer. I love the advent of online academics which gives me more time in the pool and in the drink with my students. It really doesn't matter if they learn Boyle's law from me or from their PC, as long as they know it! Where they really need an instructor's guidance is in mastering the physical skills and situational awareness.

It's my humble opinion that instructors who waste their students' time by using antiquated teaching methodologies which bore them to tears are just as culpable as the instructors who fail to cover the basics adequately. They might be proud of the length and difficulty of their course, but most just see them as arrogant fools, in love with themselves.

 

[*dave*]

It's my humble opinion that instructors who waste their students' time by using antiquated teaching methodologies which bore them to tears are just as culpable as the instructors who fail to cover the basics adequately. They might be proud of the length and difficulty of their course, but most just see them as arrogant fools, in love with themselves.

Humble opinions don't typically cast people who disagree as arrogant fools, in love with themselves. People who are insecure in their opinions and can't stand the thought of someone holding an opposing view typically make statements such as this when they are weak on supporting facts.

IMNSHO, you are talking out your ass about something you have no experience with.

 

[imwright1985]

How i think OW should be taught:
day1 Swim test:
200 yd surface swim
treding water
flooding clearing mask, removing clearing snorkle, repreatedly
day1 class: learn principals of equipment
BP/W vs BC
steel vs AL tanks
Din vs yoke Connector
integrated weights vs belt

Day 2 class: learn Basic Physics/health risks of diving
Color deterioration
Hypoxia
Narcosis
embolisims
ascent rates
breathing techniques
Day 2 Pool: basic equipent usage
Assembly of gear
Learning how to use power inflator (attach and remove LPI hose)
demonstrating use of All Dump valves
Weight ditching
Instructor tweaking your bouyancy
OOA air share (while swimming about 80-100ft with buddy)
completly removing mask for a few mins then replacing and clearing
end with entry methods

Day 3 classroom: Pressure groups
Learn how to use tables
touch on nitrox tables and applications (to show benefits of nitrox)
dive planning senarios and repetative dive planning
day 3 pool: bouyancy control, Emergency ascents
Learn to hover depending on how much air your breathing in try keeping within a couple ft depth change
Demonstrate OOA ascents without having buddy to share air (weight ditch and bouyant ascent could be done off free dive in scuba gear to prevent health risks that may arise)
Buddy towing methods
Maby add some rescue methods here (To give taste of rescue)

day 4 classroom: dive first-aid
Learn about basic first aid (From physical injuries that can occur in or out of water)
learn to administer Oxygen, and some of the really important but simple Rescue methods (I havent done rescue but im sure there is vital stuff so im working my way to that class)
Day4 pool: intro rescue
cover some of the Emergency ascents, signalling for help, and some rescue techniques

Day 5 class: Navigation
basic compass use, learning to correct yourself to get point A to point B in current (vector math)
Day5 Pool: review and demonstrate random emergency situations
Gear removal on surface and underwater, replacing gear on surface and under water

Day 6 Classroom: Dive planning plan dives for checkouts as a class (day 1 confined or light drift, Day 2 heavier drift using nitrox), cover local environmental risks (Fire coral, sharks, Scorpionfish, Fire Hydra, Jellyfish...)
Day 6 pool: review everything, Navigation (groups of 2 randomly scattered objects with tags for order to recover from coordinates and group#)

Checkout 1 basic dive, point out risks people may not notice, Navigation, demonstrate hovering, air share to surface for both dives changing whos "out" and whos sharing, removing replacing mask as you start each surface interval random rescue demo for each pair of divers. decend using rear dump ascend using upper dump finish day with proper gear cleaning

Checkout 2 demonstrate navigating using visual referance and noting direction object is and noting direction you have to swim to show the effects of current, use nitrox (to give noobs a taste of nitrox), show controlled emergency ascent from 15ft safety stop and on SI starts do rescue senarios


Im sure i missed some stuff but i think that if they broke up the course as learning basics of diving then add a little from each course that may be encountered by OW divers it will add a little influence to them persuing extra certs Plus add to their safety. I think the Basic OW now is just a little more than Snorkling knowledge other than learning pressure groupings, dive planning, ascent rates, basic health risks and how to help just to get the person to aid rather than start helping, The only benefit i saw to people that are already into snorkling or freediving is getting comfortable in dive gear and learning those things. Which i think the using different dumps on the BC's will help get them to where they can think from more of an instinctive point than just outa a habit and it never hurts to know some first-aid or how to get around in places

 

[DCBC]

It's my humble opinion that instructors who waste their students' time by using antiquated teaching methodologies which bore them to tears are just as culpable as the instructors who fail to cover the basics adequately. They might be proud of the length and difficulty of their course, but most just see them as arrogant fools, in love with themselves.

You've made a few statements that may be constituted as rude (to say the least). It would appear that as "the Chairman," you don't feel that it's incumbent on you to show respect for others using this board; which surprises me.

Perhaps you might answer a few questions for me:

1. How do antiquated teaching technologies relate to this discussion?
2. Your definition of what is antiquated and what isn't and how these cause students to be bored to tears?
3. How a length of a course and its difficulty equate to arrogant fools in-love with themselves?

 

[Diver0001]

Well there are generally two disconnects. One is with reality vs. what people online say about how they do things (ie. people tend to exaggerate if not lie, which I don't think is happening here, btw) and two, the difference between reality and people's assumptions.

There seems to be a lot of assuming that if it's possible to conform to standards and run a bad class that this is what people will *want* to do. I don't think people usually intentionally do this. Many instructors are self-conscious beings who try to improve their performance over time. Sure there are truly bad instructors out there who do cut corners and "rip off" their customers by giving them lousy training, but usually these instructors aren't following even minimum standards. Usually they don't care about standards.

The same can be true if someone goes too far in focusing on quality to the point of putting their students through an ordeal to get certified. This used to be the norm (I've heard) and there are still some instructors who do this. I have to honestly say I would feel more comfortable with an instructor with an obsession for quality than one for an aversion to it, but I'm not sure that obsessive focus on quality to the exclusion of price and/or students needs and wishes is necessarily the best model of instruction we have.

Maybe there's a middle road. In fact, I'm sure there is. You'll find lots of instructors on Scubaboard who are looking for the middle ground and some of them are probably finding it at least some of the time.

In any event, there is a difference between "methods" and "results". On boths sides of the issue people defend their own methods and over the whole I don't see a lot of people getting in line to listen intently to the methods of people who don't teach like they do.... I'm guilty of this too but I try to keep an open mind. On the subject of results, I think Pete might be right. I think you can get good results in different ways and that some of those ways are more "efficient" and/or more "effective" than others. Putting your students through an ordeal to get certified isn't the only way to get good results.

R..

 

[imwright1985]

A long class doesn't make it a better class. It just makes it longer. I love the advent of online academics which gives me more time in the pool and in the drink with my students. It really doesn't matter if they learn Boyle's law from me or from their PC, as long as they know it! Where they really need an instructor's guidance is in mastering the physical skills and situational awareness.

It's my humble opinion that instructors who waste their students' time by using antiquated teaching methodologies which bore them to tears are just as culpable as the instructors who fail to cover the basics adequately. They might be proud of the length and difficulty of their course, but most just see them as arrogant fools, in love with themselves.

But i like long hard courses, aslong as the information is relivant. IMHO what is the difference between fins, if they work they work, Masks i would say stay traditional over purge just because the purge valve may not seal propperly, Valves(they might as well just do away with mentioning the J-valve since 99% of the valves students will encounter are K or din. I think the one antiquated method though that should still be taught is actual tables (if my computer dies im going to analog till its fixed since i dont see the point of having multiple comps). My dream OW course would have a taste of Rescue, nitrox, and AOW since Nitrox alot of people will eventually get to, rescue is pretty important and at times fun and AOW will increase your limits aslong as you stay diving AOW occasionally, so it will help give them more confidence while they are stuck with just OW and will also possibly sway them into persuing their dive cert further.

In college i have had some Profs go into old kinda abstract ways of teaching topics and was bored to death and when they got to the important underlying point nearly the entire class was surfing the net on their phone, sleeping, counting roof tiles... So i definatly agree with some of your standing netdoc. I think so you dont have some people taking offence to it you should clarify some of the problems you have with things in courses or what people are mentioning of wanting to bring back.

 

[Diver0001]

How i think OW should be taught:

I like your idea of positioning navigation prominently as a basic skill. I think one of the reasons more divers don't show more initiative after the OW course is becasue of lack of this skill (ie, they don't know where to go or what to do unless someone tells them)

I miss focus on buoyancy control, finning, buddy protocol and what I would think is sufficient time in the water to just get used to the feeling of diving.

R..

 

[kjack_1]

Hi K,

Yes I'm kinda getting use to being called crazy and some other names as well. I guess it goes with the territory; I don't always see things the same way as others.

If all they call you is crazy and a few other names - you're doing pretty good...at least in MHO.

So - now that I've tried to brown-nose you did you accept the challenge of working on this here project? See, now I'm just poking-the-bear. Whether this turns out to be mental masturbation or not . . . it really could have some good outcome(s).

And I think those with the varied backgrounds are really the ones that should be targeted. Shoot, if they don't like it - they'll just delete it. You and I started diving a long time ago. You went on to do more. I pretty much took a few courses here and there just to say I did it and to keep the dive ops off my backside. Believe it or not, some dive ops kinda freak when ya go down +150ft on air and don't have that all important AOW. LMAO

I've added some stuff in the discussion in wiki, just a few fill in the blank stuff. At little here a little there . . . . .

Mental masturbation or not - - ya in?

K

 

[The Chairman]

You've made a few statements that may be constituted as rude (to say the least). It would appear that as "the Chairman," you don't feel that it's incumbent on you to show respect for others using this board; which surprises me.

Perhaps the comments were a bit close to home for you! Others seem to feel the same with your comments. Is there a reason why I should pull my punches and you should not?

Perhaps you might answer a few questions for me:

Of course!

1. How do antiquated teaching technologies relate to this discussion?

They should not be at the heart of the "perfect" SB course. Modern, up to date instructional techniques that don't waste time or bore students should be employed throughout such a course, especially if it's to bear a ScubaBoard approval!

2. Your definition of what is antiquated and what isn't and how these cause students to be bored to tears?

Talking too much before a skill. Too much idle time with your students doing nothing but watching other students. Most instructors waste a lot of time: it's no wonder their classes have to be so stinking long!

3. How a length of a course and its difficulty equate to arrogant fools in-love with themselves?

Ah, this is easy: Only when they brag it. Longer classes simply don't make better classes.