The "Official" SB Scuba Course?

[VooDooGasMan]

divings dangerous, just go dive, either you live or die. In case you do not know, not many divers die, and any person can dive, and then they are called a diver. So If you go take classes and rewarded a certification, your a certified diver. Now I am a diver, and the best diver you can possibly be. I have taken more risk and have always surfaced. Did you ever think that some dive fatalities, were just that a person, became a diver and died cause thats what they wanted, not that there training, or there knowledge was not enough to dive the dive, or dive condition they were in. My self I love diving and would love to die diving, but there is something that makes you know when to turn back, or when to surface. Yes people jump into it, and just get hysterical of the sealife, and they get off tract. So what I am saying is on these forumns is cyber diving, and the anticipation that a person has to become a certified diver, or diver, has the want to accomplish in a fast manner. A freind who is a self learner is so skepical on deco diving, I videoed a deep dive, put on dvd, and went over with a very good bottle of single malt scotch, and showed him By viewing my computer, that you do not have to just sit at 40' then 30' 20' 10'. I just stayed under the deco obligation and swam around vidieoing, My deco obligations were up and I never even made it to 25'. Now jeffs anxiety of just sittin at these stops are gone, if it was a on a ascent line he would still be confused how ever I told him. I kept telling him lets just go, he say's he needs his own gear, I have beyond several dep diving setups. So thats why I made a video for him. Yes now he understands. But he still does not have any Idea,cause he just needs to go do the deco dive. dive certifications are a reason to further divg and got to the next level.


Just Dive

Happy Diving

 

[Kingpatzer]

As someone who was most recently in the commercial curriculum design world, I think that this has to be an important consideration.

If you design a course that takes too long and costs too much for the market, it will never fly. If someone is considering getting certified in anticipation of a one time trip to Cozumel and (maybe) future similar vacations, they are not gong to be excited about a course (I am exaggerating) that takes the time and expense to prepare them for full cave exploration.

Which is why I believe one of the goals needs to be a balance between training a sufficiently safe, quality diver and being market competitive. The point isn't to redo GUE's course, or recreate NAUI or PADI or anyone else's. Rather it is to see if the combined wisdom of the net can come up with a course that could be taught competitively within the diving market place today.

What level of quality is possible in such a course?

 

[DCBC]

It does work. Sorry, but the truth is a stubborn thing.

It works for PADI more than it does the divers certified through this organization (although PADI has many good Instructors and Divers within its ranks). We each obviously have different opinions, so lets agree to disagree.

 

[mbwilliamn]

My own thoughts are that it is not either or, but that for the average recreational diver having highly developed swimming skills is not necessary. Being aware of their own limitations is necessary and they should not be choosing dives where exceeding their limits is likely.

I agree....dropping weights and putting air in your BC have nothing to do with swimming. Once you do that, mask on reg in, its just a day at the beach. At the other end, someone without basic water skills shouldn't be diving either. Lack of these skills are usually due to an inherent fear of the water....kind of a bad combination with Scuba. So I guess the real question is "what constitutes basic water skills".

 

[DCBC]

Which is why I believe one of the goals needs to be a balance between training a sufficiently safe, quality diver and being market competitive. The point isn't to redo GUE's course, or recreate NAUI or PADI or anyone else's. Rather it is to see if the combined wisdom of the net can come up with a course that could be taught competitively within the diving market place today.

What level of quality is possible in such a course?

King this is a great ideal, but I'm not sure how doable it is. As Cave Diver has said in the other thread the top priority is competence. I agree. Time and course cost just follows. You achieve the goal by answering the question: "What does a training program provide to insure that the diver is safe and can operate independently in a buddy team."

As soon as you look at cost, you lose sight of the goal. What does it take to create a safe Diver? You start watering it down to make it easy; people will die. Perhaps these numbers will fall into an acceptable bell curve, but not for me. The word is what is reasonably required in training? Perhaps I just have a different perspective because of my particular experiences.

 

[sabbath999]

In my world there would be entry bars. It's not only about the safety of the unfit it's about the safety of the people who are instabuddied with them or have to go rescue them. If you can't swim you shouldn't be diving. Helping people improve their swimming technique makes them better divers, helps them understand breath control and gives them more overall confidence in the water. The grossly unfit should be bowling, not diving.

You never "have" to be instabuddied with anybody. That is a choice each diver makes.

You can choose to team dive instead with people who you know or with people whos training you know (i.e. somebody who is trained by an agency/organization whos standards you respect), or to not dive in that situation.

Not arguing with your rescue use of it... I would have a hard time "choosing" not to attempt a rescue that was within my training and abilities (or, to rephrase that, I cannot imagine NOT trying to rescue a diver when it was within my training and abilities if needed).

 

[The Chairman]

The original post was copied and also put into the Instructor's Panel for just the Instructors to comment on! This should be good. New Thread is HERE!!!

 

[boulderjohn]

Which is why I believe one of the goals needs to be a balance between training a sufficiently safe, quality diver and being market competitive. The point isn't to redo GUE's course, or recreate NAUI or PADI or anyone else's. Rather it is to see if the combined wisdom of the net can come up with a course that could be taught competitively within the diving market place today.

What level of quality is possible in such a course?

What kind of agreement have we seen on this goal so far?

This gets back to what I said earlier--there has to be agreement on what you are trying to accomplish, and it has to be more specific than saying, "We want to produce a safe diver." "Safe diver" means different things to different people and in different contexts. A safe diver on Molasses Reef in Key Largo is very different from a safe diver in a cave.

I have heard in other threads people argue that all divers should take a course similar to DIR Fundamentals (I know the name is changed, at least in GUE), and when people say that this is more than the beginning diver needs, they reply, "What? Are you saying people should not learn buoyancy control and team skills?"

Well, those terms are not absolute. If you say students should have buoyancy control, do you mean such that they can hold a deco stop perfectly motionless in a horizontal position for 20 minutes, or are you talking about a lesser degree of control?

It is imperative that you define the purpose of the course--the kind of diver you are trying to produce, for what kind of diving--in terms that are precise and meaningful.

 

[sabbath999]

I think GUE has already designed this course

I agree. The guidelines are starting to sound just like the GUE course...

 

[kjack_1]

I agree....dropping weights and putting air in your BC have nothing to do with swimming. Once you do that, mask on reg in, its just a day at the beach. At the other end, someone without basic water skills shouldn't be diving either. Lack of these skills are usually due to an inherent fear of the water....kind of a bad combination with Scuba. So I guess the real question is "what constitutes basic water skills".

Hopefully, someone with an inherent fear of the water wouldn't be taking a scuba course...although I've seen stranger things . . .

Can the person swim - yes or no?
Can the person swim for 20 minutes (distance not important - constant forward motion is). Any stroke, any style.

K