Looking for used tanks

[carrielsal]

I have bought several steel on aluminum tanks of craigslist. Luxfer AL80's seem to be the most common. If the tank is 3 years in hydro and a vip within the last year, I would think the tank is probably ok. If the tank is older and out of hydro vip, it's a crapshoot.
Carrie

 

[mike_s]

I think most tanks are just out of hydro and for sale because the user just doesn't dive anymore. Of course you have some people selling them because they bought them for paintball and don't know anything about tanks, or bought them at an estate sale, etc, and don't know anything about tanks.

in cases like that, I'd see first if the tank held air under pressure. otherwise it's likely the valves are shot. (I bought two tanks like that one time). then do a quick visual to see if there is rust or other funk in the tank. if it's rusty (steel tank) then it might be too bad to fix.


One thing I will say is that never trust the person selling the tank to get all the details right. I bought one off Ebay once and the tank was nothing like the seller represented and the pictures were poor and didn't give it the best "view" of it. that happens sometimes.

 

[deich]

Steve, i have a couple of AL80's for sale in SF (fort Lauderdale) still in first hydro and current vis.... email me or call me deich@innovativeconcept.com or 954-829-1257

They are in perfect condition....

 

[mksmith713]

That's interesting that everyone seems to think that you can't get Luxfer AL 80's pre 1990 hydro'd, vis'd or filled anywhere.I have 2 from 1988 and one from 1980.
All just passed hydro and vis and I use them regularly.

 

[mike_s]

That's interesting that everyone seems to think that you can't get Luxfer AL 80's pre 1990 hydro'd, vis'd or filled anywhere.I have 2 from 1988 and one from 1980.
All just passed hydro and vis and I use them regularly.

none of the dive shops in my area will fill Luxfer pre 1990 tanks.

I've seen signs up in the Keys at LDS's that say the same thing.




I used to think the same thing, that if they were properly inspected there was nothing wrong with one. Then I saw one that cracked after it just passed hydro.

at that point, I agreed that a 20 year old tank that could crack wasn't worth someone at a fill station getting injured over.

just my opinion.

 

[GrandpaScuba]

Because of the confusion and mistrust, many scuba shops will not fill pre-89 tanks. You'd be surprised how easy it is to obtain blank Viz and Eddy Current stickers to slap on a tank. At the end of '02, Luxfer recalled these tanks in a limited-time replacement program. You should also note that aluminum tanks from all manufacturers, selling in the US, during this period used the faulty alloy, except Catalina. Catalina never used the suspect alloy.

From the original press story...
"To determine whether your Luxfer scuba tank is made from 6351 aluminum alloy, check the original hydrostatic test date (the earliest date) stamped on the crown. (Look for a month/year combination, such as 3/75.) If the stamped year is 1972 through 1987, the tank is made from 6351 alloy. A limited number of Luxfer scuba tanks were also made from 6351 alloy during the first half of 1988. If you have a 1988 tank with an original hydrostatic test date of 6/88 or earlier, Luxfer assumed that it was a 6351-alloy tank and issued an RG number. Tanks with an original hydrostatic test date of 7/88 or later are made from 6061 alloy and were not eligible for the trade-in program."

Also from the original press story...
"As long as these older tanks are properly inspected and requalified as required by U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) and Luxfer, you may continue to use them. DOT requires that the tanks be requalified every 5 years. In addition, Luxfer requires that the tanks receive a visual inspection by a properly trained inspector and an eddy-current test at least every 2½ years. (Please note as well that an annual visual inspection is a standard practice in the U.S. scuba industry, and Luxfer endorses this practice for all scuba tanks, not just those made from 6351 alloy.)"

And lastly...
"For cylinders in heavy use (for example, those filled five or more times a week, Luxfer recommends visual inspection every four months. For more information, refer to Luxfer's Scuba Cylinder Inspection Guide, which is available by calling Luxfer at 800-764-0366 or by visiting the Luxfer web site at www.luxfercylinders.com."

There's really no reason why these tanks can't be used as long as they are properly maintained and inspected. However, in most states, any business has the right to refuse to do business with any customer for any reason (unless the reason is a violation of civil rights as defined in the constitution). So, if the dive shop doesn't want to fill pre-89 AL tanks, there's not much you can do about it.

So to summarize my point: Aluminum tanks are cheap enough that it's not worth the hassle of having to defend your choice of pre-89 tanks. Just get newer tanks.

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

none of the dive shops in my area will fill Luxfer pre 1990 tanks.

I've seen signs up in the Keys at LDS's that say the same thing.




I used to think the same thing, that if they were properly inspected there was nothing wrong with one. Then I saw one that cracked after it just passed hydro.

at that point, I agreed that a 20 year old tank that could crack wasn't worth someone at a fill station getting injured over.

just my opinion.

The 6351 alloys are required to have 3 visuals per year if in service. Most just won't fill them like you mentioned. The sustained load crack may occur DURING hydro upon release of the pressure which is why we visually inspect before AND after. Most reputable facilities will also use eddy current testing to check for cracks in the threads.



Oops I should have read down to CatFishBob's post. He covered it.

 

[Scared Silly]

I believe Luxfer's recommendation from 2004 is now moot as of 2007

http://www.luxfercylinders.com/news/releases/20041012.shtml


Here are the 6351 Cylinders:
http://www.eastcoastdiverllc.com/3al_advisory.pdf

Here are the CFRs for these cylinders
Hazardous Materials: Aluminum Cylinders Manufactured of Aluminum Alloy 6351-T6 Used in SCUBA, SCBA, and Oxygen Services--Revised Requalification and Use Criteria | Federal Register Environmental Documents | USEPA

Anything else is scuba shop crappola.

As for OP question:

I would advise you if buying an AL cylinder to buy a cylinder no older than 10 years old (to avoid dive shop bs) with at least two-three years left in the hydro. One should pay $75-$100 for such a cylinder. Older with less time on the hydro $50-$75. I would not buy a cylinder made before 1990 to avoid any hassles.

If looking at a steel cylinder that is not an old steel 72 anything in hydro is probably safe. Price wise $150 and up depending on size. If a steel 72 $100 in hydro $50 out of hydro,

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

The above post is bull pucky:

Here are the 6351 Cylinders:
http://www.eastcoastdiverllc.com/3al_advisory.pdf

Here are the CFRs for these cylinders
Hazardous Materials: Aluminum Cylinders Manufactured of Aluminum Alloy 6351-T6 Used in SCUBA, SCBA, and Oxygen Services--Revised Requalification and Use Criteria | Federal Register Environmental Documents | USEPA

Anything else is scuba shop crappola.

As for OP question:

I would advise you if buying an AL cylinder to buy a cylinder no older than 10 years old (to avoid dive shop bs) with at least two-three years left in the hydro. One should pay $75-$100 for such a cylinder. Older with less time on the hydro $50-$75. I would not buy a cylinder made before 1990 to avoid any hassles.

If looking at a steel cylinder that is not an old steel 72 anything in hydro is probably safe. Price wise $150 and up depending on size. If a steel 72 $100 in hydro $50 out of hydro,

LOL how many have you hydro'd today?

How many have you filled from you FS?

The visual inspection requirements per the MANUFACTURER states,
Section I: Inspection and Testing of Luxfer Scuba Cylinders
Manufactured from 6351 Aluminum Alloy

Luxfer scuba cylinders were manufactured from 6351 aluminum alloy during the following periods:

* United States : 1972 through mid-1988
* England : 1967 through 1995
* Australia : 1975 through 1990

Luxfer requires that every Luxfer 6351-alloy all-aluminum scuba cylinder be visually inspected at least every 2.5 years by a properly trained inspector. As part of this inspection, Luxfer further requires that the cylinder neck be tested with an eddy-current device such as Visual Plus™, Visual Plus 2™, Visual Plus 3™,Visual Eddy™ or equivalent non-destructive testing equipment. When properly used, eddy-current devices contribute significantly to early detection of difficult-to-observe sustained-load cracks in the necks of 6351-alloy cylinders. If the cylinder passes the inspection, the inspector will document that fact. If the cylinder fails the inspection, it must be removed from service immediately. Do not use Luxfer 6351-alloy scuba cylinders that have not been both visually inspected and eddy-current tested and then properly documented.

This Luxfer-required visual and eddy-current inspection is in addition to periodic requalifications (including retesting and inspections) required or recommended by various regulatory agencies around the world. The intervals between retests and inspections vary from country to country.

In addition to the required inspection and testing described above and in keeping with U.S. scuba industry standards, Luxfer recommends that all Luxfer 6351-alloy scuba cylinders be visually inspected at least once each year by a properly trained inspector.
For cylinders in heavy use (for example, those filled five or more times a week), Luxfer recommends visual inspection every four months. For more information, refer to Luxfer’s Scuba Cylinder Inspection Guide, which is available by calling Luxfer at 800-764-0366 or by visiting the Luxfer web site at Luxfer: Setting The Standard Worldwide.




DOT does NOT regulate the manufacturer recommendations of there products.

Anything else is the opinion of someone who will probably be in the news like the last maroons that blew up there facilities.

Like I SAID, MOST shops that know what they are looking at will not fill them.

Including ours.

BTW, that was YOUR link.

 

[syntaxerrorsix]

I'm not sure whats worse sometimes, the Dive Shop BS or the SB BS.