Resort Discover Scuba Debate

[String]

The difference being day of of the OW course doesn't place you in open water (just the pool).

Yes it does. A full DSD is confined 1, theory 1 and OW1. OW1 being by definition, open water.

 

[Coldwater_Canuck]

Yes it does. A full DSD is confined 1, theory 1 and OW1. OW1 being by definition, open water.

I said that the open water course didn't, not discover scuba diving. Maybe I misinterpreted your original post though?

In any case, I certainly didn't have an open water dive on day 1 of my OW course. Do they do it that way some places?

 

[friscuba]

Maybe...... but possibly NOT! It depends where you do the Resort Course.

Example 1: We used to regularly go to Cozumel, and met quite a few people from another chat board in the process. Well, one year we met a girl who had been diving for several years. She brought her new boyfriend on this trip and had him do a Resort course. We met up with them and several others for dinner one night at a Coz restaurant and she told us how great he did on his Resort Course the first day so now they let him do Devil's Throat today! Us and two other couples all about choked on our food! Yes, he wasn't even certified, just 1 day doing Resort Course, and that dive op took him over 100' down through a swimthru, and into deco.

Example 2: Also, from groups on Cozumel... we met a guy and his 2 sons. They go to Cozumel every summer for a week, do the Resort Course, then do the rest of the weeks diving with that dive op just like they were Certified. Good? In my opinion, no. But he liked it as it was "cheaper" to him. He didn't care about learning all the stuff or getting the card, he said. This was with a different dive op than Example 1.

Example 3: This in Hawaii. My boss several years ago (before I went to work for him) was on vacation with his family. He wanted to do the Resort course at his hotel. They took them in the pool for 30 minutes then out into the ocean for a dive. Well, my boss didn't quite get the ear thing, didn't equalize right, and blew his eardrum within a few minutes of the dive. He ended up at ER, ruined his vacation, and said he would never do the diving thing again. If he had been in an OW course, he would have had lots of classroom time discussing why we clear our ears, and then time in pool to practice... he might be a diver now, too.

This is just 3 examples of why I NEVER recommend Resort Courses on vacation.

robin

Unfortunately, people like the instructors you've mentioned are going to likely be problems as instructors no matter where they teach... if they're not willing to follow standards at that level, they're not likely to follow standards anywhere.

The biggest problem with the intro scenarios you've described is that the students don't know the standards ahead of time, and apparently the Instructors aren't keen on passing it along. Can't figure out your bosses ear trouble though... I assume being Hawaii they either ran the flip chart or the video... they basically state that clearing should occur BEFORE discomfort is felt and to NOT continue downward if there is any pain. To blow an eardrum you've pretty much got to ignore that. If his Instructor was encouraging him to ignore it then that's an Instructor problem, not the program. The reality is that there's plenty of students messing up their ears in OW classes too, I doubt it's limited to just the Discover Scuba scenario.

As an Instructor, I'd personally prefer that all my OW students do a Discover Scuba dive prior to signing up for the course if possible. Every student I've had that's done one recently has been a breeze.

Discover Scuba can be a great tool for generating one's interest in becoming certified. As it is, I read some stats years ago that a rather large portion of OW students never dive again after their class. My bet is that the "resort course" Discover Scuba students that go on to get their OW certification probably stick with diving at a higher rate than those who take the full class on it's own.

Back to the original poster. The only problem I'd see with the gal is the fact that she's nervous. My recommendation to her would be to get out there and snorkel in water over her head for an afternoon or two, then set up the dive. Nearly anyone that can go 20-30 minutes or more at a time snorkeling in water over their head without being uncomfortable is going to be a good candidate for diving in my opinion. I always try to get my intro divers to snorkel for a day or two first, it makes a huge difference in the success rate (I just want to qualify "success rate"... not succeeding at an intro dive doesn't mean injury, it generally involves chickening out or getting some water up the nose and not wanting to try it... this is all within a foot or two or three of the surface).

 

[meierdierck]

Discover scuba if done properly, ie obeying standards is day 1 of the open water course. Its theory 1, all of confined water 1 and skills then a sea dive to a shallow depth under close supervision. Students after the confined should have the ability to clear a mask, replace a reg and basic idea of buoyancy. *IF* its done properly its no more dangerous than day 1 of an open water course because it IS day 1 of an open water course.

If done properly as per standards its safe. Like anything else if shortcuts are taken, it gets more dangerous. I do a DSD as a full day thing. That gives ample time to teach everything needed to an acceptable standard. If it rushed into a few hours as in some places its not as useful.

what standards are you referencing? theory? confined water? how many people do you "teach" per DSD? are you doing the PADI program, or another agency? are you teaching the Optional Open Water portion? How do you consider a DSD as Day 1 of the open water? I have only done a few hundred DSD, usually i can do 4-5 a day in the summer, and I dont see how you compare DSD to day 1 of the open water course, they have little to nothing to do with each other, and why do you spend a whole day doing it...
i am not trying to be a D*ck, i just dont follow your point

 

[NoVaScuba]

I had a great experience on a resort dive and it's the primary reason I'm certified now. As others have said, it was basically first class, first pool, then OW. The skills taught were very basic and were admittedly the minimum for a safe dive: mask clearing, equalization, regulator recovery, sharing air. There wasn't much on buoyancy except for basic operation of the BCD, but the instructor handled most of that anyway. Before leaving confined water (a boat ramp) I was comfortable with the gear and confident that any problems that did come up could be handled with the help of the instructor.

No problems came up and the dives were incredible. I was hooked. I also knew how woefully limited I was with the limited instruction I'd had. In particular, I was all over the place with buoyancy because I messed with it.

Going into OW classes I knew I could do it even though it was more demanding. More important, I knew what the reward for succeeding would be. I'm still a rank novice with a great deal to learn, but at least I'm in a position to work on it.

I would suggest to the OP that he recommend his friend take one of the Discover Scuba pool dives that a lot of shops offer free or cheap as an introduction. It might relieve some of her anxiety and would give her at least an introduction before hitting the resort.

 

[driftwood]

At the risk of sounding jingoistic, in Mexico, all bets are off- unless you find a legitimate recognized PADI (or similar quality) Dive Center and participate in an actual Bubblemaker/Intro to Diving/Resort Course program.

The dive op that took the two discover divers along on a regular dive is a PADI 5 star shop. Right across the channel from Cozumel in Akumal, don't know if they participate in an actual program, but they do sell the dives.

 

[Doc]

The dive op that took the two discover divers along on a regular dive is a PADI 5 star shop. Right across the channel from Cozumel in Akumal, don't know if they participate in an actual program, but they do sell the dives.

My next line was the qualifier:

and participate in an actual Bubblemaker/Intro to Diving/Resort Course program.

How do you know if it's right? Check the certifying (insuring) Agency's website for specifics as to course plan and what your instruction will entail.

Caveat Emptor

 

[driftwood]

I noted and understood your qualifier. Problem is that most folks who go for the discover approach will not understand or follow your advice. How much faith should a person put in a 5 star PADI dive op?

But like you said, it is Mexico. I just tend to be a bit cautious when I dive and err on the side of safety.

 

[DTm]

Had it not been for a certified buddy, just signing us up for a discover scuba driving tour while in Cancun, I would have never gotten certified. Had I attempted to get certified before we went - I would have never completed the course!
Getting Certified in a lake where the viz is like 2 ft has no comparison to diving in the ocean. The best we can hope for is a sunken boat or yard ornament.

Now, if you have the experience of a discovery scuba dive - you kind of get the idea of a big part of it, colorful fish and coral with 100 ft viz and are more motivated to complete a course in a swap.

Today I would take any dive in swap over not diving. Had it not been for that first discovery diving I would not have this great experience

I have even taken my wife on a discover scuba dive (yes I went through it to).
Neither my dive nor my wife allowed more that one dive in 30 ft or less.

I am shocked and appalled at the stories of places that let uncertified divers go on multiple dives or on deep dives… I blindly hope that these are the minority of the case.

I absolutely think a discover diving tour is the right place to start.
Tell your co-worker however to look for a shop that has a rating from PADI, NAUI, SSI, SDI. While this is not a guarantee it is a start.
If your co-worker does not feel comfortable with the level of instruction given prior to the dive tell her to bail. Gave her the easy out phrase – “My ears will not clear” – this lets her get out of the dive without the peer pressure.

 

[bleeb]

To help the non-diver recognize a bad outfit, in the standards, what's the required and what's the recommended instructor to discoverer ratio while in open water? How about DMs or other certified assistants? Max depth? Allowable surface and weather conditions?