Diver Death in Cayman

[fosterboxermom]

I'm having a hard time following that. Being a new diver at 100ft, after 10 minutes how much air do you think he had left? Lets say for reasoning he had 1/2 a a 80cuft cylinder.

3000psi => used 1500 PSI while diving 10 mins @ 100ft. At 100ft he would be using 150 pounds per minute with a SAC of 37.21 pounds per minute.

At 346ft, using 427 pounds per minute. With 1500lbs in his tank he would have had roughly 3 mins 30 seconds of air left at that depth.

I think that having used only 1500psi at 100 ft for 10 minutes for a new divers is unrealistic but if that were the case I beleive the cause of death would be asphyxiation.

We all started at 3200 psi and the dive was to be 20mins with a computer. I don't know how much air he had at 10 mintes beause that is when he was lost. And of course when he came back being at 346ft he had zero. But it was not asphzxiation, it was the depth and the fast ascent that killed him.

 

[wedivebc]

No diver going to 346 ft is going to be able to get to the surface alive or unbent, from 346 ft on one tank. It is my feeling that he could not do it even on two tanks. Even on trimix it's iffy from that depth? Someone know for sure?

Yesterday we decended pretty quickly to 300ft, my computer started showing deco obligation at 5 minutes and 200ft into the dive.
If you are asking if a person could do a direct ascent from 346ft without getting bent then probably no. I doubt this unfortunate diver was even consious at 346ft breathing air.

 

[MikeSK]

I havent read every post in here, but here's my thought.

1) Apparently newly certified diver doing CHECK OUT dives. Something i might be missing here..but if he's doing the checkout dives, isn't a DM/Instructor supposed to be with him to gauge skill? Isn't that the point of checkout divers? Or are these "the first time in cayman" checkout dives? Like for boyancy control and whatnot

2) I myself am DM certified. My total experience as a DM was basically as an intern in a a lake and pool in wisconsin sheperding newbs to/from the platform. While on the surface i would talk to the newbs, tell them my experiences, keep them calm and comfortable regarding the skills tests and so on. Point i'm trying to make here is this though...

If I'm the sole "authority" figure on a boat, or in a lake, or whatever and the rest are newbs...I would make it a point to make sure everyone was buddy-ed, they had done their buddy checks and so on. This i would probably do after a saftey/plan briefing and before any newbs got in the water. I would NOT be cavorting on the dock like one of those music box monkeys.

3) The buddy system is there for a reason. IF the DM was contractually bound to be this persons buddy for the checkout dives, that's one thing. If he wasn't, then its up to his actuall buddy to make sure everything is good to go, where the person is, etc etc

4) now, on the flip side...the dm/shop do sound sketcky given that the "captain" was also the DM. I do think he should have at the very least talked to each person to gauge comfort/skill level. Easily done on the way to the site before the briefing. As a matter of fact..aren't shops/boats SUPPOSED to check for c-cards when signing someone up?

One DM for six people as a guide is fine, but rule #1...don't split up. Well, one of the top 5 anyway. A DM can't possibly be expected to keep track of 6 people when they all over the place. Either everyone should have gone to 100, or NO ONE goes to 100. If the briefing detailed the plan as going to 100..then those who didn't want to go to 100 should have sat it out yes? Its also up to the DIVER to veto the plan if they are uncomfortable.

Its a tragedy to be sure. All the more so because it was easily preventable, by all parties.

 

[oly5050user]

yes he knew the victim was missing but you don't contiune a dive!!!! You abort, abort what part of that don't you understand!!!!! You don't continue. What if it had been your wife or someone missing and they were on the surface and coudld have been saved and we continued for 10 more minutes and a 3 minute safety stop. That was 13 minutes of life saving time!!!! You don't continue, you stop. End of dive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok,so did you tell the DM to end the dive?? did you continue with the group?Is the Dm supposed to leave the entire group at risk to go look for 1 that maybe missing? If the victim was on the surface the boat captain/crew that was on the surface could assist him..If the Dm was the only one from the dive operation that day he should have stayed on the boat and supervise from there-it would not have prevented this type of accident-..
There were 2 groups diving that site,the people with the Dm on the wall and the group that stayed shallow,on the top? of the wall.Possibly a niced location with features that will please both experienced divers and new..Maybe to be real safe there should not have been 2 groups allowed,no one allowed to dive near the wall,no one -certified or not-to dive without a personal DM.That is not what most divers who know what they are doing,would want..Again it comes down to personal responsibility..Once certified you have acknowledged that you have been informed of risks involved and limitations you should adhear to.Excced recommended limitations and accept responsibility..
The Dm may have thought Brendan simply went back to the boat being that no one showed a conncern to end dive.Again the DM is not there to be your buddy,but to only lead the dive,unless specifically requested.
As to having "4 more tanks " on hand to perform a rescue,how is that going to work at those depths? Breathing gas would have to be a mix of trimix and O2 and a team prepared for that kind of dive(very few people have gone that deep-very small group),with the skill to do it,and there would have to be a safety team at a shallower depth -the logistics go on and on..very unrealistic.
My wife dives and she is competent enough to call off a dive if it is beyond her comfort zone,as most divers should be able to..Again I am so sorry this has happened,but accidents occur in any activity that has any type of risks.

 

[wedivebc]

We all started at 3200 psi and the dive was to be 20mins with a computer. I don't know how much air he had at 10 mintes beause that is when he was lost. And of course when he came back being at 346ft he had zero. But it was not asphzxiation, it was the depth and the fast ascent that killed him.

I am having trouble understanding what caused him to come back after being at 346ft. He swam up himself?

 

[Splash-X]

Too many facts contradict eachother in this thread.

One thing is for certain, it was a horrible tragedy that could have been avoided by knowing your own limits and diving to your own experience and comfort level.

Two wrongs don't make anything right but placing the full blame on any one company or individual is unreasonable.

 

[bsee65]

What a contentious thread. To summarize the facts, fosterboxermom, and please correct or answer where things aren't clear:

1. This diver planned to go to 100' in a group of six divers, including the DM, while two other divers remained above at 60'. That's seven customers and the DM.

2. There was apparently no other person left on the surface.

3. At some point, early in the dive, the victim was separated from the group. Exactly when isn't clear. You say you communicated with the DM once he was lost, did the DM come back up to you from 100' to 60', or was the diver lost already by the time the descent reached 60'?

4. You say the DM was his buddy, but you also say the DM took the five customers as a group to 100'. Where the other four divers in that group paired up in twos as well, or was this a group of six with no sharply defined buddies?

5. Knowing the limits of your friends and your predisposition to remain above 60', were the other four customers experienced divers who wanted to go deep? When the dive was booked, was there any specification of what the dive profile would be?

6. According to the opereator's website, they offer "Guided or Unguided Dives", which was this?

7. Has anyone compared the computers of the rest of the group of six? That should give you detail about when separation occurred and how quickly they were separating. It must have been pretty rapid if he got down past 100m and back to the surface in that short a time.

8. When you said "It was in feet and it was pegged to the max. We went off what was on his computer. And no I don't believe he went that far.", were you suggesting that you believe his computer malfunctioned and he never got down past 300'? Or, rather, are you just expressing a belief that he didn't intend to go that deep?
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With regard to dive profiles, are these dives booked with any sort of level system? It would seem the schedule of various dives from an operator should specify and group divers accordingly so that you don't end up with a split group like this one.

Also, as a newer member here, I find some of the posting offensive. If you're going to attack a poster's position, the least you could do is actually read what was posted. I can appreciate that this group has a lot of opinionated people with a lot of experience who don't feel like sugar coating things, especially when it comes to safety. That said, there's no reason for anyone to be rude, especially if they don't read the post or position that they are railing about.

I also heartily agree with the sentiment that the certification training should aggressively inform divers that DM's should not be relied upon to ensure your safety.

I'm sure we'll be hearing more about this one.

 

[fosterboxermom]

I'm sorry but I have explained this story to the best of my ability. While I understand everones opinions. You had to be there to understand what happened. This is a blog and I am just trying to let everyone know please do your research BEFORE YOU CHOOSE your dive shop AND DON'T ASSUME just because it is on PADI. COM and it is a 5 STAR Dive shop that it is a good one. We found that out. Make sure you know the laws of that country. Make sure they have ALL the life saving equipment on board AND IT IS NOT LOCKED UP!!!!!!!! Make sure the people on board know how to use it or take a rescue course yourself. And above all I learned after all of my experience I am not as experienced as I thought you always need to keep your wits and confidence in check. Don't get over excited about diving be safe because the only one that is going to take care of you is YOU!!! The DM's are there (as he called himself "your Dive Entertainment") And that is what he turned out to be exactly that and nothing more.

Now I have been on dives that safety is ALL they talk about and those are the kind of dives I will continue to look for and dive with if they aren't I am not diving. I take it seriously, however, it is fun. I don't want to hear stupid jokes (he told us a joke about two eggs in a frying pan) however, I like it to be adult fun with comments of hand signals such as give me one finger for 1000psi (not the middle finger) So I am not a prude but I know diving can be fun if all precautions are safe and above all else even it you have an idiot as a DM get a Buddy if you are alone. Don't depend on the DM to do that for you or to follow him because chances are he won't.

Blessings to all that helped me and gave me good wishes and positive thoughts. To all others, well someday you might be here wishing someone would give you some nice words and you will get that and be grateful. Just remember:

One word frees us of the weight and pain of life; that word is love!

peace and grace, Fosterboxermom

 

[ScubaSteve]

My friend died last week due to a DM's error. I will do whatever I have to to let everyone know that Cayman is unsafe to dive!!

Sorry for your loss. I hope you are able to quench your thirst for change.

 

[redacted]

yes he knew the victim was missing but you don't contiune a dive!!!! You abort, abort what part of that don't you understand!!!!! You don't continue. What if it had been your wife or someone missing and they were on the surface and coudld have been saved and we continued for 10 more minutes and a 3 minute safety stop. That was 13 minutes of life saving time!!!! You don't continue, you stop. End of dive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In my experience, missing divers during DM guided dives is a fairly common occurrence. DMs are in the front and can not be expected to keep track of divers who fall back or separate for whatever reason. In the cases I have experience, the group continued the dive and the separated diver(s) rejoined us UW or at the surface when our planned dive was finished.

It is truly unfortunate that a dive was lost like this, but the overwhelming bulk of the responsibility lies with the certified diver.