MARP Price Fixing Update - Consumers Win!

[gotwake]

I don't mind advertising requirements, but the limits that some companies have put in place really irritate me. Every LDS near me has always had these requirements and I guess that I have associated that with MAP. I have always thought of the LDS as the victim.

Good deal on the drysuit....... man, you reamed me I feel so violated, I'm going diving

 

[Dive Right In Scuba]

I don't mind advertising requirements, but the limits that some companies have put in place really irritate me. Every LDS near me has always had these requirements and I guess that I have associated that with MAP. I have always thought of the LDS as the victim.

Good deal on the drysuit....... man, you reamed me I feel so violated, I'm going diving

LOL...nothing beats a night dive in the bath tub

 

[gotwake]

LOL...nothing beats a night dive in the bath tub

I had actually thought of that........ the wife was like "You are going do what?"

 

[offthewall1]

For those that dont understand differences:

MARP- The minimum price you MUST sell a product at or you get in trouble- STUPID

MAP- The minimum price you can advertise a product for. Keeps a level playing field and SHOULD give your LDS a step up in pricing as they CAN beat any online price at their store....most just decide not to.

Thanks for the post... it's 50% right and 50% wrong.

I certainly and obviously agree with your assessment of MARP. This is what Maryland has done away with... and we suspect many others will follow soon.

MAP is the bigger question and what we're also currently challenging through the FTC.
The idea that MAP keeps a playing field level is wrong. Internet retailers consistently advertise products below MAP. This is what lures local shoppers away from the LDS and into internet sales in the first place. By limiting the LDS's ability to advertise similar prices, the alure to consumers to visit the LDS is dissapated.

In a market with say 8 LDS's (such as mine,) competition is pretty heavy. Much like it is for say Sports Authority, Dicks Sporting Goods, etc... So in my Sunday paper I get a bunch of advertisements. Sports Authority advertises easton Baseball bats for sale in the spring... bats that ar usually $99... but this week on sale for $69. This lower price for anyone into baseball is a good deal... and Sports Authorities sales of baseball bats triples during the sale period.

This does not happen in the Scuba market for LDS's... because you can't advertise below the MAP price. When is the last time any of you saw a scuba ad in the paper... something to draw large numbers of local divers into the scuba store?

You may constantly get advertisements in your email from Leisurepro, or maybe even Scuba toys or others who'se emails you've signed up for... and better yet, you can go to their websites and see their everyday lower advertised prices with the click of a mouse. The question is how can the LDS compete with that... unless they are allowed to do the very same thing. The answer - they can't.

MARP was illegal under Sherman for more than 100 years. To think that a 2007 Supreme Court decision pressured by special interest (big business) should stand is a smack in the face of what those before us knew to be right.

MAP is arguably even worse for small business - because it keeps small business from being able to advertise their goods at prices to interest people in making a trip to their store. This is why they sit around with their hands crossed waiting for someone to walk in - instead of aggressively marketing their goods like most other retail establishments.

More people would get into scuba if more places advertised it. DEMA's Be A Diver campaign was put together explicitly by manufacturers worried that numbers were falling. Well numbers are falling because LDS's are falling due to internet sales and the LDS's being unable to keep up. They can't keep up because of the restrictions of MARP and MAP.

I could grow my business 10 fold overnight if I could actively advertise my pricing. I suspect that all the other shops in my area could do the same. If they had any sense, they'd fight for these changes with me... then we could co-op advertise (as the Be A Diver campaign intended) only we could advertise our classes - and our equipment at OUR prices... and let the people decide where to go.

I know that 8 stores in our market, even in this economy can make it... if they would all just work together to defeat MAP and MARP, put diving in front of more peoples faces through cooperative advertising and make it more affordable for a family of four.

We're well into our 2nd year of business and month to month sales have been above 2008 numbers every month in 2009. I wonder why? Anyone who doesn't believe our numbers is welcome to come and have a look at how we operate. Just call me to make an appointment with me.

Finally, I have not mentioned the specific Brand as they are under investigation by the FTC. You are all welcome to get that information from Kelly Ortiz at the San Fransisco office of the FTC (Federal Trade Commission.) An attorney has been assigend to the case... and so I don't know how much information myself or they will divulge. Suffice it to say that SP and AP/AQL were also indicated in the report along with some others.
Those of you who keep questioning who it is... know who it is... so stop trying to bait the others...

Cheers

 

[offthewall1]

They don't keep supplying the on-line shops (they being SP). The on-line shops buy out inventory from stores going out of business. (of which there are many, ironically, partly because of the on-line stores) They also buy "grey market" overseas. France is a big supplier of grey market goods.

Incorrect... all manufacturers sell direct to online retailers. Now admittedly since I don't have direct access to the records of any manufacturer or to the records of any online sellers, the FTC may have already obtained them or copies of them.

I do not know what level the investigation is at... I don't ask for or receive daily updates nor do I feel entitled to them.

What I do know is that information came to light from former manufacturer reps of some of these companies indicating direct sales to the online dealers... and this is where there may be some collusion going on.

It is impossible for these online dealers to have the new product listed on their websites as in stock prior to authorized dealers having it in stock. I have personally ordered products for my "authorized dealership" only to be told they are not yet available... all the while showing up online as ready to ship.

This clearly indicates items are not being obtained through grey-market channels. I had a former rep walk into my store one day and tell me that he had personally seen (certain major manufacturer) invoices at one of the most well known online sellers. When he asked his superiors about it... he was told "you didn't see that... they don't exist." Of course he was pissed because this was a sale he should have received commission on... and it was a lot of money.

Now I recognize this is a publicly unsubstantiated third party story... and there is no evidence I can give you to support it. What I do know is that this is being privately investigated by authorities from the FTC.

Collusion throughout this industry is being alleged by persons other than myself and volumes of documents have been presented to date as evidence from other parties.

I expect major fallouts to come by the end of 2009... just as I expected and predicted the fall of MARP. I also expect the eventual fall of MAP... but that is admittedly a much longer, tougher and arduous fight.... stay tuned.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

MARP was illegal under Sherman for more than 100 years. To think that a 2007 Supreme Court decision pressured by special interest (big business) should stand is a smack in the face of what those before us knew to be right.

Kevin, you make the occasional valid point but you bury it in propoganda that weakens any validty your argument has and limits its potential to grow into something that might actually have merit.

The first objective of any good propaganda strategy is to reduce the complex issues into simple black/white, good/evil statements.

The second objective is to place the blame for the bad and evil that is occurring on someone or something.

The third objective is to then ignore any evidence that refutes or challenges your position and continue to pound away using whatever evidence is left to reinforce objectives 1 and 2 and to discredit any opposition.

(In short, define a problem in very simple and absolute terms, blame it on a common enemy and drum up public support to solve all the problems by vanquishing the common enemy.)

It can be a very effective way to sway masses of people who want something to believe in, don't think too hard about an issue, or who just want change for the sake of change with no real concern for the long term impact.

It worked really well, initially, for the national socialists in the 1930's as well as for W when he was ignoring what his intelligence community was saying and looking for reasons to use to drum up public support to go to war with Iraq. It may work just as well for off the wall scuba, but don't make the mistake of confusing it with "truth" or delude yourself into thinking that starting off with a flawed premis that has popular support will lead to a good outcome. It won't.

 

[offthewall1]

Kevin, you make the occasional valid point but you bury it in propoganda that weakens any validty your argument has and limits its potential to grow into something that might actually have merit.

The first objective of any good propaganda strategy is to reduce the complex issues into simple black/white, good/evil statements.

The second objective is to place the blame for the bad and evil that is occurring on someone or something.

The third objective is to then ignore any evidence that refutes or challenges your position and continue to pound away using whatever evidence is left to reinforce objectives 1 and 2 and to discredit any opposition.

(In short, define a problem in very simple and absolute terms, blame it on a common enemy and drum up public support to solve all the problems by vanquishing the common enemy.)

It can be a very effective way to sway masses of people who want something to believe in, don't think too hard about an issue, or who just want change for the sake of change with no real concern for the long term impact.

It worked really well, initially, for the national socialists in the 1930's as well as for W when he was ignoring what his intelligence community was saying and looking for reasons to use to drum up public support to go to war with Iraq. It may work just as well for off the wall scuba, but don't make the mistake of confusing it with "truth" or delude yourself into thinking that starting off with a flawed premis that has popular support will lead to a good outcome. It won't.

DA,

I'm still not sure sometimes where you sit in this debate... but you're always welcome to join our team...

Cheers

 

[jpsexton]

Look, the cat is out of the bag! Leisure Pro is here to stay and the restrictions need to be lifted so that the LDS's that want too, can compete with them. We can never go back to the way it was, that is the past!

Most people like to shop, it's human nature. For some it's a damn hobby in itself! It's silly to think you can just ask MSRP for everything and nobody will check around for prices. A well informed shopper will research what they want and where they can get it for the best price. The uninformed shoppers will just buy what is popular but even they will still look for the best price.

I'm not too sure about his notion that all of our LDS's are a place to get expertise and advise either. There are a few but my experience for the most part is like going to Radio Shack, "You got questions, We got blank stares!". Most of the LDS's that I see when I travel around the US are engaged in luring in the new diver and sell them as much as they can before they wise up. They operate on the "A sucker is born every minute!" business model.

I see this as a welcome change but realistically I don't think it will make much difference overnight. This is a culture change, and that kind of change usually takes generations...

 

[shoredivr]

Wow, offthewall1, you're appealing to our love of freedom to justify more government intrusion, citing completely unrelated polls to bolster your viewpoint, announcing grandiose plans to remake the industry, and dodging every specific question put to you. I do believe you can run for office.

Best post yet.

 

[offthewall1]

Best post yet.

Hmmm... this political thing keeps coming up... maybe I should consider a run (LOL.)

At least maybe I should rejoin DEMA and run for the board... that might be fun!