Near-DIR diving: Are there DIR things you would probably never do?

[JeffG]

Really? I can't back it up? I just gave you a real life example.

Where? You call that "proof". Who even says the guy was DIR? (I'm sure you will expand your story to include more "proof"...Did he stand at the bow of the boat with his "Fundamentals of better diving" held close to his chest giving a sermon to all the occupants.)

Do you really choose to believe that there isn't a single DIR diver out there or a handful that does the things that other people say they've seen/heard?

Actually. I couldn't care less.

 

[sillygrendel]

This one time I met this guy that wore hiking boots... He was a complete jerk and made me feel inferior. I hate people with hiking boots now... In fact, they make me want to vomit. One day I ran into this other jerk wearing hiking boots, and... well... as soon as I saw the boots I up-chucked all over him - serves him right. Why would anyone want hiking boots anyway? Crazy fools go in the woods or something? Sandals not good enough for them?

I'd never wear hiking boots myself because I'd never want to be associated such people. (not to mention that I'd be puking all over myself all the time)

 

[alwaingold]

And some DIR folks, or a few or whatever DO go around telling people they are going to get hurt or die. That's not a myth or rumor, it happens.

Making these claims and not backing them up is sort of lame. However, I do not deny that there may be some DIR divers out there telling other divers that they are going to get themselves hurt. But let me ask you this -- so what? If I knew another diver, DIR or not, who was doing something that I honestly believed was going to get them seriously hurt or dead, I would tell them; that's not being DIR or elitist, it's being a friend. I hope that all of my dive buddies, DIR or not, will tell me if they think I am doing something dangerous (as long as it doesn't pertain to bolt snaps).

The problem isn't with telling people they are doing something risky; it is with one's ability to judge what is risky. There are clearly some (supposedly) DIR people out there who think that the silliest things are going to get you killed. And there are those who think it's impossible to learn to be a competent diver any other way. But every group has their zealots.

I was on a liveaboard trip once, and one of the other people on the boat was a "certified solo diver". This diver was very proud of that designation, and thought that solo diving was the greatest thing since sliced bread, not just for him, but for everyone. He spent a lot of time trying to convince people that they should take a solo diver class. (Ironically, when I asked him what were the useful skills that he learned in his solo diver class that made it so worth taking, they were basically gas planning and how to shoot a bag, but I digress). Anyhoo, I came away from that trip with a lot of funny anecdotes about the solo diver, but I certainly didn't think that all solo divers are crazy proselytizers.

It may just be the nature of technical diving attracting people that are more prone to be a little more elitist and to have an actual system/organization to back that up can bring that out.

I don't see how it is bad to be elitist in the sense that you don't want to dive with unsafe divers. I don't think any diver wants to dive with divers they consider unsafe. Again, the problem is what some consider an "unsafe" diver. There is nothing wrong with being elitist per se.

It's like saying it is elitist not to get into a car with a drunk driver. I guess it is, but I am okay with being elitist in this way.

 

[Hockeynut]

This one time I met this guy that wore hiking boots... He was a complete jerk and made me feel inferior. I hate people with hiking boots now... In fact, they make me want to vomit. One day I ran into this other jerk wearing hiking boots, and... well... as soon as I saw the boots I up-chucked all over him - serves him right. Why would anyone want hiking boots anyway? Crazy fools go in the woods or something? Sandals not good enough for them?

I'd never wear hiking boots myself because I'd never want to be associated such people. (not to mention that I'd be puking all over myself all the time)

I wear hiking boots. sorry.

 

[rjack321]

Is it really neccessary to continue to use that term on a public forum...?

The "anti-s" claim that's all every other word out of my mouth, well when I've got my hiking boots on at least.

 

[sillygrendel]

:l:

I wear hiking boots. sorry.

:l:

 

[Clammy]

Where? You call that "proof". Who even says the guy was DIR? (I'm sure you will expand your story to include more "proof"...Did he stand at the bow of the boat with his "Fundamentals of better diving" held close to his chest giving a sermon to all the occupants.)


Actually. I couldn't care less.

What do you want? a video tape? He claimed to be DIR. Fine, choose to believe that I'm making it up and that every person that ever had a story about some ass who happens to be DIR is making it up. You say you don't care but are adamantly choosing to believe that I'm making it up. I obviously don't care if people such as that exist otherwise I'd be sitting here being adamantly AGAINST it, which if you choose to believe me and read through my posts, is obviously not the case since I fully intend to take fundies down the line when I am ready for it.

It's almost like you're taking this as a personal attack. I've never dove with you or met you. I don't know if you're a jerk or not. However, in this particular case, either you are proving an aspect of my point, or I've insulted you or your group, which I had no intention of doing. Do I need to say again that I LIKE much of what I've read about DIR/GUE so far? That I'm in no way against the system? I'm talking about people.

Tech divers are a relatively small group. You don't meet tons of them. Within that group, you have an even smaller subgroup that are DIR. I try to talk to tech people and milk as much info, knowledge, and opinions out of every one that I meet because I plan to go that route. In my short history of diving I've had conversations with maybe 10-15 tech divers. I've liked almost all of them, including DIR people. I've also had just as many people tell me not to go DIR, which again, I don't like to hear because it's just as closed minded to say that. What I'm saying is that since there are even a few percentage of DIR people around, meeting one could be rarity for many people and if that one person turns out to be an elitist close minded ass, what do you think the perception of DIR to that person is going to be?

Let's put it another way, in simple open water situations, if a new diver has a horrible instructor who is mean and won't spend the necessary extra pool time to get a diver up to the skills they should have before their open water dives, and subsequently they have horrible open water dives, what are the chances that they will ever get back in the water again? For most of us, that first experience of taking a breath underwater was probably life changing enough to make us drop thousands and for some eventually tens of thousands of dollar in gear.

I'm talking about impressions and the way people can come off in what should be an inclusive sport.

 

[JeffG]

It's almost like you're taking this as a personal attack.

Did you miss the part where I said that I don't care? or the other part where I said I was amused.

Let's put it another way, in simple open water situations, if a new diver has a horrible instructor who is mean and won't spend the necessary extra pool time to get a diver up to the skills they should have before their open water dives, and subsequently they have horrible open water dives, what are the chances that they will ever get back in the water again? For most of us, that first experience of taking a breath underwater was probably life changing enough to make us drop thousands and for some eventually tens of thousands of dollar in gear.

I'm talking about impressions and the way people can come off in what should be an inclusive sport.

and again. Who cares? If someone writes off a system because someone was "mean" to them is a very shortsighted person. They probably wouldn't like DIR anyways.

 

[Clammy]

Making these claims and not backing them up is sort of lame. However, I do not deny that there may be some DIR divers out there telling other divers that they are going to get themselves hurt. But let me ask you this -- so what? If I knew another diver, DIR or not, who was doing something that I honestly believed was going to get them seriously hurt or dead, I would tell them; that's not being DIR or elitist, it's being a friend. I hope that all of my dive buddies, DIR or not, will tell me if they think I am doing something dangerous (as long as it doesn't pertain to bolt snaps).

The problem isn't with telling people they are doing something risky; it is with one's ability to judge what is risky. There are clearly some (supposedly) DIR people out there who think that the silliest things are going to get you killed. And there are those who think it's impossible to learn to be a competent diver any other way. But every group has their zealots.

I was on a liveaboard trip once, and one of the other people on the boat was a "certified solo diver". This diver was very proud of that designation, and thought that solo diving was the greatest thing since sliced bread, not just for him, but for everyone. He spent a lot of time trying to convince people that they should take a solo diver class. (Ironically, when I asked him what were the useful skills that he learned in his solo diver class that made it so worth taking, they were basically gas planning and how to shoot a bag, but I digress). Anyhoo, I came away from that trip with a lot of funny anecdotes about the solo diver, but I certainly didn't think that all solo divers are crazy proselytizers.



I don't see how it is bad to be elitist in the sense that you don't want to dive with unsafe divers. I don't think any diver wants to dive with divers they consider unsafe. Again, the problem is what some consider an "unsafe" diver. There is nothing wrong with being elitist per se.

It's like saying it is elitist not to get into a car with a drunk driver. I guess it is, but I am okay with being elitist in this way.

I would really like to know how I'm suppose to back up my own anecdote or other peoples short of video tape it? Like you said, there are people out there. Which is all I'm saying! I'm just also adding that a few bad apples in a very small barrel can make a bigger difference then say 100 idiot divers out of PADI (not knocking PADI, just mean compared to the amount of divers they do churn out).

You're right, it isn't bad to be elitist. it CAN be bad, but so can being all inclusive as well. Elitism does or can foster arrogance just as being all inclusive could possibly foster carelessness. Once AGAIN, I'm not trying to knock anything as a whole! There are good and bad things to it all! x_X

 

[JeffG]

Here's a good thread to read

http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/dir-practitioners-zone/208638-whats-your-vision.html