LDS VS Internet Sale!!!

[psychocabbage]

The only real advantage to a steel tank on your back over an Al is that you can take some weight off your belt. The buoyancy swing will be about the same for the same volume of gas.

If color is the driving factor the shop should give you what you want. If nothing else they should discuss your preferences and perhaps provide options, but they should certainly sell you what you want even if it means ordering it in.

Mat.

EXACLTY..
And with integrated weights, I dont feel any of it ever.. Its all in my BC. I didnt even notice when I lost a pouch on a night dive in Cozumel. I was still able to dive and goof off and be annoyed in the morning when it was missing.. Found out later another group found it but didnt want to give it back.. grrr..

 

[phillyrob]

EXACLTY..
.. I didnt even notice when I lost a pouch on a night dive in Cozumel. I was still able to dive and goof off and be annoyed in the morning when it was missing...

Overweighted a bit ?

 

[scubadale]

Overweighted a bit ?

Maybe that is why he needs a 100 instead of an 80???

Sorry I can't comment as I own an LDS and we can't offer any suggestions. Okay I'll sell you a black AL 100. Just PM me.

 

[scubadale]

For your wife to be mad enough to not want to go back the LDS did more than just make suggestions - I am assuming. I make suggestions all the time as I believe that the consumer should have as much information as possible to make a wise decision. But the bottom line is the customer is able to buy what they want. Just don't come back later complaining cause I might tell you I told you so (probably not but won't get much sympathy)

 

[24940]

With steel, less ditchable weight is required and trim is easier due to the weight being distributed over the area where lift is concentrated. Picture a teeter totter: weight belt/integrated weights to the right of center of gravity and BCD to the left. Put your rig in the water and tell me how it floats...

When you are overweighted (as you are) and that weight is lower than your CG(as it is on you), your trim gets hosed and it becomes more work to maintain buoyancy. This ups your sac and reduces BT.

Aluminum is for rentals, stages, argon and doubles.

Steel is superior to AL.

Now, I'm all about spelling out the options and letting people make their own [-]mistakes[/-] choices, but putting aesthetics over function in this sport is not wise.

Thanks for the welcome!

Steel:
BF -10lbs
BE -2lbs
Weight Empty 33 lbs
Cost:in the $300+ range.

Al:
BF -4.3
BE (500psi) +1.9
Weight Empty 41
Cost:under $200

I have dove with an Al 100 and had 0 issues. It did not feel heavier. I didnt feel as if I was suddenly going to shoot up when I had it down to 800psi.
I am an ex athlete and while I just turned 37 I still race BMX and exercise regularly.
Isnt the benefit of the LDS that they know you personally to some degree. I am no hulk but am generally more fit than those around my age. While many freak out over the bouyancy of an item, are they getting geeky enough to count all of their equipment? dive knife? That doesnt float at all. Light? Mine wont float. All of that will even out.. and I woudl bet the +1.9lbs of the Al tank, is offset by my spool, knife and light alone. Not to mention what else I may be dragging along with me just to amuse myself..


I dont like the look of steel. I am snobbish and prefer all my stuff to be black. Just a color preference.. I also do not like the properties of steel compared to Al when dealing with water. I would much rather have Al anyday. Being the consumer, we walk in asking for a specific product, we are not in the mood to hear you are not going to sell the product to us. We will just spend our $ elsewhere.

EXACLTY..
And with integrated weights, I dont feel any of it ever.. Its all in my BC. I didnt even notice when I lost a pouch on a night dive in Cozumel. I was still able to dive and goof off and be annoyed in the morning when it was missing.. Found out later another group found it but didnt want to give it back.. grrr..

 

[Splitlip]

I think it's fair that your LDS gives their opinions on steel versus aluminum. It's not very wise for them to insist or demand, though.

Where did you get those specs? Exact numbers will vary by manufacturer but you should be seeing a 7 to 8 pound swing for 100cf air.

Steel costs more upfront but many have found it to cost less in the long run, often lasting far longer than aluminum when cared for properly. YMMV.

The hound and I do agree on somethings.

FWIW there is an aluminum 100 that keeps getting passed around within a group I sometimes dive with. Each person who has used it for a while gives it to the next for free! The names marked up and crossed off look like some strange piece of art.

I am waiting for it to come to me. I well then remove the valve and turn it into a door bell.

The steel was good advise.

 

[RJP]

The only real advantage to a steel tank on your back over an Al is that you can take some weight off your belt.

Really?

So you don't think being able to put 20-30% more gas into a smaller physical form factor is a "real" advantage?

And I guess the idea of a steel tank having a serviceable lifespan nearly 3x as long as aluminum isn't an advantage either?

Yes there is a significant cost difference, but to say that dropping a few pounds off your weightbelt is the only advantage is almost as ridiculous as choosing your tank based primarily on color availability.

 

[RJP]

EXACLTY..
And with integrated weights, I dont feel any of it ever.. Its all in my BC. I didnt even notice when I lost a pouch on a night dive in Cozumel. I was still able to dive and goof off and be annoyed in the morning when it was missing.. Found out later another group found it but didnt want to give it back.. grrr..

I had to check the date on this post to make sure it wasn't still April Fool's Day!

So you lost one of your weight pouches and DIDN'T NOTICE it was missing until the next day? Either you only carry 1-2lbs in each pouch, or your weighting is so far off that it's ridiculous.

PS - maybe you should invest in day-glow yellow weight pouches so you will notice when you drop them by mistake.

 

[skippy31]

Really?

So you don't think being able to put 20-30% more gas into a smaller physical form factor is a "real" advantage?

And I guess the idea of a steel tank having a serviceable lifespan nearly 3x as long as aluminum isn't an advantage either?

Yes there is a significant cost difference, but to say that dropping a few pounds off your weight belt is the only advantage is almost as ridiculous as choosing your tank based primarily on color availability.

This forum is "Basic Scuba Discussions" given this we are talking about recreational divers. This means cost is normally a big factor. Your first comment makes no sense to me are you talking HP steel here? If so that is a whole other can of worms. Just have a read in any DIR forums about HP tanks as an example.

I don't know about you, but I've had my aluminum tanks for my whole diving career. So having the supposed 3X lifetime is a mute point. I've also had to do more work on my Faber 95s over the years because of the terrible paint job put on my the manufacturer. Every time I hydro my steel tanks I need to brush or tumble them due to flash rusting.

Point is aluminum tanks are and will always be very popular with recreational divers if for no other reason than cost.

A recreational diver may prefer an AL100 over a LP98 because it means little or no change to their setup. If you compare an AL100 to a HP100 Steel then the weighting is closer, but you run into potential filling issues as well as requiring 300 BAR DIN regs which the diver may or may not already have.

Mat.

 

[ReefHound]

One more possible advantage of steel is, in my observation, they hold their resale value better. When guys go to sell steel cylinders in good condition here or on TDS they are usually gone the same day, sometimes within minutes.