Aren't "100" Dives enough!?!

[Walter]

.........I've met many, many instructors who've approached instruction in exactly the same way you are approaching it. I find them to be confident without cause. They have learned theory, but all their experience has been in class, so they have very little practical experience. They are among the very poorest instructors I've encountered. If you continue the way you are planning, you'll be one more in that crowd.

Walter

 

[LoCz]

Walter? heh im no ordinary person for a start so your opionion is not of me but someone that "you think" i am.

i think? lol

Does anyone agree with Walter?

 

[LoCz]

Walter then how should i approach the situation?

 

[Walter]

..........to have decided to teach diving when you don't know how to dive youself. It may well be that you'll make an excellent instructor, but at this point you don't even know if you'll be any good at diving.

Your first goal should be to learn to dive. After learning to dive you need to gain some experience diving. I'd suggest a minimum of 25 dives after you're certified before taking another class. Pick up your advanced from an agency (or an instructor) that requires a minimum of 10 dives as part of the class. A rescue class is a must. I've yet to see a rescue class from any agency that wasn't well worth the time and money. You can add a specialty or two if you like, but many of them are useless. At this point you'll have approximately 50 dives (could be slightly more or less), most of them in uncontrolled circumstances. At this point, you should become an apprentice on a charter dive boat. You'll learn more in that capacity about diving and about how not to teach than in all your classes combined. You'll meet those instructors I've referred to in my previous post and you'll wonder how their students survive. You'll also gain valuable rescue experience because you'll be the reason some of those undertrained students and certified divers don't kill themselves. A rescue will become just another part of the job. As an apprentice, you'll be able to pick up your divemaster certification, perhaps your AI as well and prepare yourself for the real world of diving. You'll be better prepared for your instructor course than by taking class after class.

Walter

 

[LoCz]

You would suggest a minimum of 25 dives would you hmmm.
Walter have you read my passt posts? i already stated that i will be taking around about 40 dives at least, all over the british coast, before i even think about going any further than AOW. iv been around water all my life and i surf. Of course i can dive otherwise i wouldnt be concidering it. Personally i dont think for 1 minute that i have to be able to don scuba gear in order to know if i can dive. Being able to dive well is another matter and only experience will prevail. However i do understand why you and anyone else would think it is a bad idea for me to do this in this particular way. Moreover if i listened to ppl like yourself with anything more than a pinch of salt then i would be likely to re-think my whole career plan heh.

I will be sitting in on every possible scuba class that i can (throughout those 40 or so dives in the UK) in order to help out and watch the instructors teach. I am not going into this lightly at all and anything less than the best isnt goodenough IMHO. I always aim to be the best at whatever i do and thankfully so far i have achieved that goal more often than not,this will be no different. Anyway enough about me its not a jon interview for crying out loud lol

You can see the course i intend to take (at ft lauderdale Florida) below

http://www.prodiveusa.com/

Phase I to phase 4

 

[Mario S Caner]

I strongly disagree with your opinion of specialty courses being useless! It's a great way to gain experience in a form of diving that would otherwise be a completely different experience.

Are you saying that a diver should just go out and do a night dive or a drysuit dive with his/her buddies instead of a trained professional for the first time? Hopefully I've misunderstood your post Walter.

Your posts and opinions... though have been anti any other training agency other than YMCA, have usually been very professional and informative.

Happy diving everyone! (The water was great today!)
Mario

 

[Tocantins]

I'm sorry to say but I think that after all the training you are talking about getting you will be a pretty good diver and experienced as a diver in general but still very green and probably very confused in all the specialities you will have. The brain neesds to work on things so that they get in to second nature and the intense trainning you are talking about may give you the tecnical requirements but I don't think that just tha cuts it in this line of work. I hope you make it and fullfill your dreams but I think you are going about it the wrong way.

Safe diving
Greetings From Portugal (the tip of Europe)

 

[Walter]

........however many are, IMHO, worthless.

Drysuit is necessary training, although there's not enough material there to make an entire course. It should be included with the purchase of the suit.

Night diving - covered adequately in any decent advanced class there's no need for a night diving specialty.

Peak Performancy Buoyancy - teach it properly in the OW class.

Mulitlevel Diver - cover it in advanced.

Deep Diver - to not exceed 130 ft? Give me a break, this is another portion of the advanced class. If they were really talking about deep diving, I'd agree with it being a legitimate class.

Equipment Specialist - doesn't cover anything that shouldn't have been covered in OW.

Underwater Navigator - should be covered in OW & expanded in advanced.

Drift Diver - a 15 minute lecture that should be included in OW.

Altitude Diver - depending on the course location, this should be covered in either OW or advanced.

Boat Diver - this one is ridiculous. If you can't dive from a boat, you should have ANY c-card.

That's 10 different specialties that I believe have no reason to exist as separate specialties. I believe 10 qualifies as "many."

There are some specialties that require enough special training that they require their own class. Photography, Search & Recovery, Rescue, Wreck, Cavern, Ice, Cave & Nitrox immediately come to mind. I'm sure there are others.

I'm not "anti any other training agency other than YMCA." I AM pro YMCA, but there are other excellent agencies as well. CMAS, NAUI, BSAC & LA County immediately come to mind. BTW, YMCA is far from perfect. I'm not terribly familiar with many of the other agencies, but am interested in seeing standards from any of them.

Walter

 

[Mario S Caner]

Walter,
First of all, you're assuming that the diver in question has already taken the AOW course... that may not be the case. Second, the AOW includes only one dive from each type. Often times we do more than just one, but it's not part of the standards.

Yes, I agree that there are some specialties that aren't as extensive as others when taught by the wrong instructor... but that's not the case here!

Walter, I'm not trying to start something unpleasant with you, everyone doesn't have to agree all the time. This happens to be one of times when we don't agree. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. I respect the fact that you are strong about your ideas, good for you. I just don't agree, and I'm certainly entitled to mine.

Happy Diving,
Mario

 

[Walter]

Mario,

I never get upset over differences of opinion. Especially since I'm usually in the minority.

"you're assuming that the diver in question has already taken the AOW course... that may not be the case."

No, I'm assuming most would rather take OW (required) and Advanced than OW and 9 specialties.

"the AOW includes only one dive from each type. Often times we do more than just one, but it's not part of the standards."

Depends on which agency's standards you are following. With some agencies, there's damned little required.

Walter