PvtStash
Contributor
I've paid for the tea and its delivery to me; its the "pleasant and timely" part that may deserve consideration..., but you Knew that didnt you?
Tipping
- Thread starter lightwalk333
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I've paid for the tea and its delivery to me; its the "pleasant and timely" part that may deserve consideration..., but you Knew that didnt you?
caymaniac
Contributor
What have you paid for for a trip to the dive site?
1. You've paid for boat passage
2. You've paid for a dive site briefing
3. You've paid for a tank/tanks
4. You paid for weights
5. You've paid for a seat on the boat
6. You've paid for a boat with saftey equip.
7. You've paid for a dive guide if the op requires you stay with the group.
8. On some boats refreshments are included
Maybe you can bring to light other things that go along with a ride to the dive site.
I think if I tip it will be for someone giving my wife or me a hand in and out of the water, help with my equip., if in the water I would choose a guide (I can't remeber ever doing this) then the guide may possibly earn a tip.
A good point is what exactly is the job of the op on the trip? Is it to get a tip or is it their job to work on the boat, to help other divers?
At what point are those working for the op doing something that deserves a tip?
Anyone, anyone, bueller.....
1. You've paid for boat passage
2. You've paid for a dive site briefing
3. You've paid for a tank/tanks
4. You paid for weights
5. You've paid for a seat on the boat
6. You've paid for a boat with saftey equip.
7. You've paid for a dive guide if the op requires you stay with the group.
8. On some boats refreshments are included
Maybe you can bring to light other things that go along with a ride to the dive site.
I think if I tip it will be for someone giving my wife or me a hand in and out of the water, help with my equip., if in the water I would choose a guide (I can't remeber ever doing this) then the guide may possibly earn a tip.
A good point is what exactly is the job of the op on the trip? Is it to get a tip or is it their job to work on the boat, to help other divers?
At what point are those working for the op doing something that deserves a tip?
Anyone, anyone, bueller.....
DennisS
Contributor
DMs and dive boat crew members don't deserve tips. They are almost universally lazy, and there is no reason for a paying passenger to subsidize their misguided carreer decisions. This is especially true if you set your own dive gear up or otherwise don't feel you need or want the alleged "services" that these slackers purport to provide. If they are so stupid as to work for free in the first place, there's really no need for you to give them another thought. You owe them nothing more than your contempt.
I dont have any contempt for DMs, they're out there, doing what they want to do with their time, I'm out there doing what I want to do and paying for it.
Aloha all you bitter cheapskates,
This attitude problem of yours has had a negative affect on diving for many years. Before you get your board shorts in a bunch, let's look at the main market factor in diving for many vocal SB'ers; price. Just like with certification, the trend is toward the operator with the lowest price. Quickie 3 day certs are what happens when most customers won't take the time or spend the money for thorough professional training, followed by advertising even lower class prices that don't include required materials, and then 100 dive paper instructors who don't have a family to feed or a mortgage.
Similar pressure for lowest priced boat trips has strained the ability of shops to retain competent crew. Look around folks, costs for everything are rising; fuel, food, operating permits, membership, insurance. Yet if a boat raises it's price hardly anybody goes with them. After years of nickel and dime-ing it's a wonder any good crew still works dive boats, so when you do run into them, show them your appreciation in a way that makes a difference, with some cash!
When I go on a dive boat, I expect the captain and crew to be working for my tip! By that I mean they should be going above and beyond trying to make my trip so good I will tip them big!
As a captain I could just head straight toward the site full throttle with gear bouncing and spray flying and any diver should be aware of sea conditions, or I could skillfully pilot the vessel in a safe and comfortable way to make the surface journey as enjoyable as possible.
As a DM I could just do the minimal duties or I could engage in pleasant conversation about diving and vacation activities, figuring out abilities, skills and desires to make suggestions and accommodations that will enhance both wet and dry times in my neighborhood.
As a guide I might find out what critters or activities you hope to see underwater and lead you to them or point them out when they happen. After the dive I might break out the books and better show you the unique animals we saw on our dive, or that you could see next time now that you know better what to look for.
The professional boat crew does not hold back on their skillful service, because the rewards from the compassionate, caring, understanding and appreciative guests makes up for the bozo's and moron's. But that does not mean we and our good patrons don't notice the bozo's and moron's who sponge off the system not paying their share!
When in Rome... one job as a dive traveler is to learn and follow the local customs. Do some investigation to find out if tipping is appropriate, and if it is budget accordingly, or sleep well with the fact that we all joke about the fact that your butt cheeks squeak when you walk!
If you can't afford the tip, don't do the trip!
This attitude problem of yours has had a negative affect on diving for many years. Before you get your board shorts in a bunch, let's look at the main market factor in diving for many vocal SB'ers; price. Just like with certification, the trend is toward the operator with the lowest price. Quickie 3 day certs are what happens when most customers won't take the time or spend the money for thorough professional training, followed by advertising even lower class prices that don't include required materials, and then 100 dive paper instructors who don't have a family to feed or a mortgage.
Similar pressure for lowest priced boat trips has strained the ability of shops to retain competent crew. Look around folks, costs for everything are rising; fuel, food, operating permits, membership, insurance. Yet if a boat raises it's price hardly anybody goes with them. After years of nickel and dime-ing it's a wonder any good crew still works dive boats, so when you do run into them, show them your appreciation in a way that makes a difference, with some cash!
When I go on a dive boat, I expect the captain and crew to be working for my tip! By that I mean they should be going above and beyond trying to make my trip so good I will tip them big!
As a captain I could just head straight toward the site full throttle with gear bouncing and spray flying and any diver should be aware of sea conditions, or I could skillfully pilot the vessel in a safe and comfortable way to make the surface journey as enjoyable as possible.
As a DM I could just do the minimal duties or I could engage in pleasant conversation about diving and vacation activities, figuring out abilities, skills and desires to make suggestions and accommodations that will enhance both wet and dry times in my neighborhood.
As a guide I might find out what critters or activities you hope to see underwater and lead you to them or point them out when they happen. After the dive I might break out the books and better show you the unique animals we saw on our dive, or that you could see next time now that you know better what to look for.
The professional boat crew does not hold back on their skillful service, because the rewards from the compassionate, caring, understanding and appreciative guests makes up for the bozo's and moron's. But that does not mean we and our good patrons don't notice the bozo's and moron's who sponge off the system not paying their share!
When in Rome... one job as a dive traveler is to learn and follow the local customs. Do some investigation to find out if tipping is appropriate, and if it is budget accordingly, or sleep well with the fact that we all joke about the fact that your butt cheeks squeak when you walk!
If you can't afford the tip, don't do the trip!
Tipping does seem to be a very US thing though.
Here in the UK service charge is included at most places.
IMHO people should be trying to do the best job they can anyway so they can look at themselves in the mirror and know they did the right thing, not just because they expect a tip.
Despite popular myth Money does not make the world go round!!
Here in the UK service charge is included at most places.
IMHO people should be trying to do the best job they can anyway so they can look at themselves in the mirror and know they did the right thing, not just because they expect a tip.
Despite popular myth Money does not make the world go round!!
People who do not tip are rude.
The tip is an expected part of the DMs compensation.
If everyone stopped tipping, we would all just get stuck with service charges like they do in the UK. We would stop rewarding hardworking DMs for quality service and attract less qualified persons. The quality of service would degrade and we would be paying more.
Please keep tipping.
The tip is an expected part of the DMs compensation.
If everyone stopped tipping, we would all just get stuck with service charges like they do in the UK. We would stop rewarding hardworking DMs for quality service and attract less qualified persons. The quality of service would degrade and we would be paying more.
Please keep tipping.
almitywife
Vegemite Mod
Rude according to who and what culture though? Whats wrong with the UKs service charge??
Are you saying the service is better because you tip??
Or that people go all out on service expecting a tip, and are disappointed if they dont get one.
Surely people should do there best at what they do because it is the honourable thing to do.
Lets get it straight, tipping is not paying, If I have paid already why should I tip.
Are you saying the service is better because you tip??
Or that people go all out on service expecting a tip, and are disappointed if they dont get one.
Surely people should do there best at what they do because it is the honourable thing to do.
Lets get it straight, tipping is not paying, If I have paid already why should I tip.
Despite the fact that tipping does seem to be an American thing, we didn't invent it. Tipping is actually a very old custom which may have started as early as the Roman Empire.
Its modern form may have orginated in coffee houses of England in the 16th century and the word "tip" itself was just short for "To Insure Promptitude". I'm not sure I agree with that or not, but that's one theory out there. Another is that it was common in public houses (pubs) to give the server in the place a small amount of money at the end of the night as a way of telling that person to have a drink on you. This was done to prevent the servers from becoming envious of all the people they were serving as they may not be able to afford to drink on their own wages.
Whatever the origin of the tip, the meaning behind it is still the same. It is meant as way of judging the job a person has done for you in a highly personalized industry. Take diving for example. You may not tip the captain of the boat, but that's because for the most part he knows he's done a good job if everyone gets back to the dock in one piece and it isn't really all that personal of a thing for him to drive you there and back. Now, other members of the crew are different. They may be helping you with gear, giving you a brief about the location, answering your questions, helping you in and out of the water, or even guiding you on the dive. It is a very personal thing and they are directly serving you. That's why that position does, based upon historic standards, deserve a tip.
Now, the problem has come in where society stepped in and said "you must always tip 15%" then the employers got in on it and decided that if everyone is going to tip for the job, why pay? So now you've got people in the service industry who expect a tip, but don't work to earn it.
As for the international tipping, just make sure you look into it before you go. Most European countries tack it onto the bill automatically, but it is still acceptable to tip on top of that if you received really exceptional service. Some places, Mexico being one, it seems as though you should just walk around tipping anyone and everyone you cross paths with.
And some places, Vietnam for one, it is actually illegal to tip in some establishments. Also, keep in mind that the idea of "service" varies from location to location also. What may be considered great service in one location may be thought to be horrible service elsewhere.
So, if you can make any sense at all from that incoherent babbling, I hope it helps. If not, sorry, I have a tendency to ramble a bit.
Its modern form may have orginated in coffee houses of England in the 16th century and the word "tip" itself was just short for "To Insure Promptitude". I'm not sure I agree with that or not, but that's one theory out there. Another is that it was common in public houses (pubs) to give the server in the place a small amount of money at the end of the night as a way of telling that person to have a drink on you. This was done to prevent the servers from becoming envious of all the people they were serving as they may not be able to afford to drink on their own wages.
Whatever the origin of the tip, the meaning behind it is still the same. It is meant as way of judging the job a person has done for you in a highly personalized industry. Take diving for example. You may not tip the captain of the boat, but that's because for the most part he knows he's done a good job if everyone gets back to the dock in one piece and it isn't really all that personal of a thing for him to drive you there and back. Now, other members of the crew are different. They may be helping you with gear, giving you a brief about the location, answering your questions, helping you in and out of the water, or even guiding you on the dive. It is a very personal thing and they are directly serving you. That's why that position does, based upon historic standards, deserve a tip.
Now, the problem has come in where society stepped in and said "you must always tip 15%" then the employers got in on it and decided that if everyone is going to tip for the job, why pay? So now you've got people in the service industry who expect a tip, but don't work to earn it.
As for the international tipping, just make sure you look into it before you go. Most European countries tack it onto the bill automatically, but it is still acceptable to tip on top of that if you received really exceptional service. Some places, Mexico being one, it seems as though you should just walk around tipping anyone and everyone you cross paths with.
And some places, Vietnam for one, it is actually illegal to tip in some establishments. Also, keep in mind that the idea of "service" varies from location to location also. What may be considered great service in one location may be thought to be horrible service elsewhere.So, if you can make any sense at all from that incoherent babbling, I hope it helps. If not, sorry, I have a tendency to ramble a bit.
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