So, what is the point of AOW???

[FranzKafka]

I took the AOW because I was diving on Spiegel Grove. I either needed the AOW card or needed an instructor to go with me. Net/Net the cost was a bit more to get the AOW, so that's what I did.

I am very glad I did. The instructor was fantastic. MY diving skills really improved over the 5 dives for AOW, plus I got Nitrox cert at same time.

Why fight it? Most dive boats want the AOW card to take you deep. Take the AOW while you do a deep wreck dive. Then you have it.

Or you can fight the system and not get it. Then you can complain here about why the AOW is worthless.

As they say.....you can't fight City Hall. So just get the card and make the dive boat captain's jobs just a little bit easier.

 

[dkatchalov]

Here in Melbourne, Australia they are very strict on your certification level. You can only do the dives you are certed for. Otherwise you won't be let onto the boat. Good system IMHO.

Of course you can still get your own boat, go to the middle of the bay and do a 60 metre wall dive, but thats a different story.

 

[Gilldiver]

As many have said the instructor makes the class.

I have seen many divers who after open water and a bunch of dives can run circles around most divers with AOW. I have also seen Dive Masters and Instructors who shouldn't have passed AOW.

Giving the instructor, who you talked to, the benefit of the doubt, I would say he might have thought you had a natural ability and practical experience that was above the level that his agency or shop met in their AOW class.

I am one of those "old time" divers who never had classes like AOW. I got my original cert in 1979 when NAUI had:
Scuba Diver
Master Diver (I think, it may have come later)
Dive Master
Assistant Instructor
Instructor

With a SCUBA Diver cert I dove all around the US East Coast and the Bahamas until the AOW thing started going. Then I ran into a lot of hassles as I was not qualified yada, yada, yada. I usually just said, watch me with my gear and on your required check out dive for everyone and then let me know if I am qualified. Usually after 2 or 3 dives I was left alone or asked to "help out."

I finally did get a AOW cert in 1995 when I took an instructor into the engine room of the USS Tarpon and got him a gauge. He asked what he could do for me as he had never been inside like that before, I just asked him if I had passed the AOW test.

I am in the same boat with mixed gas, I just never wanted to pay someone for a cert to do what I have been doing for over 15 years. I could ask why I should pay some new instructor to "teach" me how to do dives I have been doing longer then he has been diving and that he might not be experianced enough to do?

Why, because that is the way it is, thats why.

 

[Walter]

No, the instructor shouldn't be ashamed for telling the truth. AOW is a JOKE! Yes, some operators require the AOW card (or higher) to take you to some sites. That's ridiculous because the AOW course does not qualify to to actually make those dives. Someone can get an OW card with 4 dives to 60 feet (yes, I know if you take a PADI course, you can only make 2 dives to 60 feet), while another diver can have an AOW card with only 1 dive to 60 feet.

There are some excellent advanced classes available, but you reallly have to search them out. TSandM mentioned NWGratefulDiver's AOW class. I've chatted with Bob enough to know his class is excellent, but while you do get an AOW card after completion, it's not really an AOW class, it's an advanced class designed by Bob. LA County has what is probably the best advanced class anywhere. YMCA has an AOW that is a joke, but it also has Silver Advanced that is excellent.

Bill, I agree most entry level classes are pretty low quality, but there are exceptions there as well.

 

[Stu S.]

I too have a NASDS Scuba Diver certification from 1976. I started diving in 1960 without any certification. I bought my gear from J.C. Penny (Healthways). I have been doing night, wreck, 100ft+, drift, type dives years. I just got my AOW a year ago. The reason : my NASDS card broke completely up and even the microfish fell out. I needed another card, could not find out how to replace the old NASDS card, NASDS office had a fire and their records were lost. So I took the PADI AOW while I was in Aruba last year. They did not like my old taped together card anymore even though I had been diving with them for about ten years. It didn't really cost anymore than booking the five dives, it was all dives that I planned on doing anyway. There really wasn't much of a class, not like the old NASDS, I read the chapter at night, did the quiz at the end, brought it to the dive shop, they graded it and went over it, and we went diving. So was it worth it? Well I have not idea, financially it didn't cost anymore than the dives I planned on, Did it give me new information, I don't think so, Did I learn anything from it, yes I always learn something from every dive I have ever done, does it make me a better diver, It may have as it was five more dives that I made and experience will do that, It was fun and now I have a new card that I don't get hassled about, it even has a picture on it! Am I a better diver now with a new card, NOPE, same old guy only I can now use that VooDoo Gas, got Nitrox ceritified also. I still need dives and experience to keep making me better! I don't think you ever learn enough! It was 5 dives that were educational as all dives are. Does the AOW qualify me to go out a make dives that are beyond my capabilities, NO, I do not think AOW has changed a thing and I still need to dive within my comfort level, as I have always done.

So to a new diver would I recommend the AOW certification, YES as it is more experience and maybe some different types of dives. I would recommend having at least 15-20 dives and you are comfortable in the water before doing it.

Hey, Dave. I carry my card in a little plastic bag. It is about to split up, and I don't want to lose pieces. I have had no hassels over certification, but I'll have to figure something out if I want to dive the Grove. I used to get air at a shop here in Apopka, and those guys wanted me to dive it with them. No hassels, but that dive shop closed.

I always want to learn more. I'm not sure of the best way to do it. A couple of years ago I was on a shipwreck at Pompano Beach. There was an AOW class on it, and they were not too advanced. Good for them taking the training, but I would only have gotten a card out of it.

Stu

 

[String]

There is the other side of the insurance issue as well. Your own insurance. I recall reading about a woman who was injured while diving in the Red Sea. She was forced to recover from her injuries in the Mid-East. Her insurance would not pay. They said that she was not certified to be diving to said depth, thus it was her own risk, and her own burden for payment.

Correct, She was qualified to dive to 20m depth, was insured to 30m depth but dived to 40m depth and got bent.
I have limited sympathy for such people. The chamber costs alone totalled over $50,000.

One of the few good things left in the UK is its not totally into arse-covering yet. Not once have i ever been asked to show any evidence of certification to book on a trip, dive at an inland site, get a fill or anything else. Sensible and allowing people to make their own call about what to do.

 

[bvmjethead]

The value of an AOW class varies with the class. Mine wasn't worth much except to do five additional dives with an instructor. On the other hand, NWGratefulDiver teaches an AOW class which would challenge most divers, I think.

I've come to value what NWGratefulDiver say's here on these forums. Maybe soon he could come to the east coast and teach an AOW course......

 

[427Dave]

Hey, Dave. I carry my card in a little plastic bag. It is about to split up, and I don't want to lose pieces.

Stu

I taped all the pieces to the back of one of my business cards even the microfish, which information is so out of date.

 

[Colliam7]

The thread responses are interesting, and somewhat predictable. 1. Yes, SOME operators in SOME locations, for SOME dives will require AOW, for liability reasons, insurance reasons, whatever. If you want to avoid the possibility of that particular disappointment, get the certification. It is not a major investment of money or time. (And, for those divers out there who want to argue with the boat captain, as a matter of principle, that their experience is far more substantial than what any AOW course can teach, fine, just don't get in the way of the rest of us as we are loading gear on the boat.) 2. Yes, AOW can be worthless, and as Walter correctly points out simply having the card does not necessarily qualify you to dive in many of the environments where an operator might require an AOW card. Because I have been to 70ft on an AOW deep dive in a quarry does not necessarily 'qualify' me to dive to the sand on the Grove in a ripping current. 3. Yes, the instructor can make a lot of difference in the content and quality of a course. 4. But, what is usually missed in these discussions is the role the 'student' diver plays in the outcome of the course. If a diver signs up for AOW, says nothing during the course except when called on, does (only) whatever is asked of him or her, and gets the card, 'worthless' is a term that does come to mind. While instructors can be inspirational, can motivate others by their example, blah, blah, blah, they are not trained seals, ready to entertain the student diver at a moment's notice. You already have a good bit of experience. In many ways you would make an ideal student for AOW, in part because you can probably already identify things you now want to learn! (JD950, I realize you have already said you were asking more out of concern about limitations placed on a non-AOW diver, so maybe I will now refer to the royal 'we' and royal 'you'). The diver in an AOW course who asks a lot of (relevant) 'What if?', 'How can I?', 'What is the best way?', 'Why?', 'Why not?', 'Can we try this two different ways?', questions can get a lot out of an AOW course when paired with an instructor who has a lot of experience and integrity, and interest in diving. The diver who says to the instructor, before doing the underwater nav dive, 'I want to try two different compasses - one on a retractor and one on my wrist, to see which works better.' is the diver who is exploring knowledge, in an environment where there is (ideally) a more knowledgable professional available to bounce ideas off. No course is perfect, no instrucor is perfect, AND no 'student' is perfect.

 

[Stu S.]

I taped all the pieces to the back of one of my business cards even the microfish, which information is so out of date.

I was told send $40 and the old NASDS card to SSI, to get a new SSI card. For that, I'll keep the bag. Where is the microfiche? Mine is just plastic. A buddy saw it and thought it was funny that it said: "National Association of "Skin Diving" Schools.

Too good to get rid of.