Near-DIR diving: Are there DIR things you would probably never do?

[MXGratefulDiver]

This doesn't belong in this forum. A question regarding why each of these practices exist would be great since it hasn't been answered very well so far.

I agree ... although I don't see the OP as a troll, I do believe the questions, as asked, violate the purpose of this forum, and should be discussed in the Basic Discussions forum instead.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[*Floater*]

Some have suggested that using a small mask light, one (SS) quick-release and a wrist slate stems from laziness. I'd say using them is no more lazy than using spring straps. Why make things difficult if a quicker, easier and more efficient way to implement the same outcome exists? Now discussing whether or not they are potential failure points, entanglement hazards or could hinder team members (mask light) is fair game.

 

[RTodd]

Some have suggested that using a small mask light, one (SS) quick-release and a wrist slate stems from laziness. I'd say using them is no more lazy than using spring straps. Why make things difficult if a quicker, easier and more efficient way to implement the same outcome exists? Now discussing whether or not they are potential failure points, entanglement hazards or could hinder team members (mask light) is fair game.

As in too lazy to learn to perform the task the way the system was designed. Spring straps cure a problem, breaking rubber straps. They aren't in an of themselves designed to be a time or labor saving device. I still have an original pair of Farrallon spring traps on a pair of jets (better design than the H ones). The original straps would have disentigrated by now.

You are the classic example of what the mean old word stroke was intended to convey. You have been provided with the information and whys of how the DIR system works but refuse to do it that way. That is fine, just stop coming to this forum and asking for someone to validate your ideas which, from a DIR perspective, are stupid.

In an open water context, I am happy to take a guy in a regular open water rig on a simple dive and show them things. It is the guys that almost have it right but insist on some amount of bozoness that you have to steer clear of. I tried this crap once. In my cave class I showed up with everything spot on (based on DIR at the time) except I had used brass clips (no SS at the time) on my pressure gauge and primary reg that were too big. I resisted changing them during the class when JJ told me too mostly because I was so tired from the class. His response was you are 99% there, just fix it. It sank in, particularly since he has a gift of being very politic about saying this sort of thing and is rarely this blunt. (That is the main reason people think George is evil and JJ is okay. They are saying the exact same thing. JJ just has more patience. The information is all that matters, not the delivery method.)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

As in too lazy to learn to perform the task the way the system was designed. Spring straps cure a problem, breaking rubber straps. They aren't in an of themselves designed to be a time or labor saving device. I still have an original pair of Farrallon spring traps on a pair of jets (better design than the H ones). The original straps would have disentigrated by now.

Actually, I have had a spring strap break on me during a dive ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Rainer]

Actually, I have had a spring strap break on me during a dive ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

So what? RTodd never said they were perfect, just BETTER than the rubber straps they were designed to replace. EVERYTHING eventually breaks.

 

[*Floater*]

As in too lazy to learn to perform the task the way the system was designed. Spring straps cure a problem, breaking rubber straps. They aren't in an of themselves designed to be a time or labor saving device. I still have an original pair of Farrallon spring traps on a pair of jets (better design than the H ones). The original straps would have disentigrated by now.

You are the classic example of what the mean old word stroke was intended to convey. You have been provided with the information and whys of how the DIR system works but refuse to do it that way. That is fine, just stop coming to this forum and asking for someone to validate your ideas which, from a DIR perspective, are stupid.

In an open water context, I am happy to take a guy in a regular open water rig on a simple dive and show them things. It is the guys that almost have it right but insist on some amount of bozoness that you have to steer clear of. I tried this crap once. In my cave class I showed up with everything spot on (based on DIR at the time) except I had used brass clips (no SS at the time) on my pressure gauge and primary reg that were too big. I resisted changing them during the class when JJ told me too mostly because I was so tired from the class. His response was you are 99% there, just fix it. It sank in, particularly since he has a gift of being very politic about saying this sort of thing and is rarely this blunt. (That is the main reason people think George is evil and JJ is okay. They are saying the exact same thing. JJ just has more patience. The information is all that matters, not the delivery method.)

I have no problem learning to do things the DIR way if that's the best way, but I do question some minor details of the system and their efficacy. For example, I described to you how I use my wrist slate. It obviously makes taking quick notes more efficient and I see no safety concern with them as long as you have enough forearm space for everything. Should a DIR diver not need to take quick notes? Is there some other reason why a wrist slate might become problematic later on?

As for doffing the gear, I know how to do it the DIR way, but a quick-release is sometimes faster. If doffing in the water then I just pull the rig off over the head, but in a shaky boat it's nice to have the quick-release and again I see no safety concern with them if they are made of SS with SS springs.

 

[RTodd]

Actually, I have had a spring strap break on me during a dive ...



... Bob (Grateful Diver)

To add to Rainer's response, that looks like a poorly designed strap that relies solely on the shock cord to hold it together. If that is the case, it isn't much of an improvement over rubber staps. But, I can't tell for sure from the picture. The ones I have attach the spring directly to the metal attachment point to the fin and the shock cord. Who makes those Bob?

 

[BarryNL]

Wrist mounted compass. Light spill over should be sufficient to read compass while still keeping it focused ahead on where you are going. Of course, if you are diving in visiblity that poor, or needing that much help from compass navigation, i.e. not following contour of a wreck or something, preferred method would be to lay/follow a line to return to your starting point.

I have tried this and light spill over really isn't sufficient to read the compass. In the deep dark Dutch lakes you either need to shine the light on the compass, or at least regularly charge it. The idea of running a line could work, though this sounds a bit like solving a problem you've created for yourself - exactly the sort of thing DIR complains about with regular SCUBA equipment setups.

Actually, I think the problem is that the DIR setup is designed to work with DPVs - and they do have a valid point about keeping things consistent for all diving, but I'm not sure I want to keep my right hand free for a DPV I'll probably never buy

Several reasons. One of the big ones is deployment of the long hose. Can't do that if there are stages in the way. One of the principle things of DIR is stanardized configuration for all dive conditions, so you'll always know where your gear is and how to access it.

Is this true though? Certainly you need to donate your air in a hurry, but you don't need to deploy the entire hose that quickly. Once your buddy is breathing your gas he has plenty of time to worry about freeing the extra hose from under your right hand strage. On the other hand, there was apparently a Dutch DIR diver who had a very close call diving in Italy last year after breathing his 100% at 21m. I tend to believe that the easier you make it for people to screw up the more often they'll do it.

Drysuit is normally redundant bouyancy. In the event of no drysuit, lift bag is preferred. Two main reasons. For a dual bladder, you have to have two hoses. If you leave both hoses hooked up, you might have air "seep" into second wing, causing inflation and bouyancy issues that might be hard to pinpoint during dive. Secondly, if a wing "fails" during a dive, likely cause is a puncture from a sharp object on wreck, etc. Most bladders that are maintained and kept in good shape dont just "fail." If something punctures the primary bladder, what are the odds that it may also damage your secondary one as well? If you arent carrying another backup device (liftbag) then your SOL. If you are, then why bother carrying two bladders? Then, there is the whole static vs. dynamic discussion, but thats a whole other post...

Well, you certainly wouldn't have the spare bladder hooked up. In fact, I'd question whether you even need an air hose for it. Some divers like to have an LP hose on a stage to hook to the spare bladder if needed but I think you could just orally inflate it. The point about piercing the bladders is valid though its still not really an argument against having a spare bladder - it's one more piece of redundancy. Why not two bladders, and a lift bag and a drysuit? Having a working wing is always going to be a better option than either of the others.

Ok, so I break this one myself from time to time. The idea is that the use of computers makes many people to reliant on them. If things go south, they have no idea of depth/time/deco obligation, or how to make a solid plan to ascend safely from RIGHT NOW. On "big" dives, I have a written deco plan, and carry a computer more for data logging and depth/time info. On "rec" dives with no deco, I'll still plan it the dive, but generally use the computer as a comparison to my dive plan.

Note that "using" one is not the same as "relying" on one.

Fair point - I certainly wouldn't go deco diving without tables, and I always carry a Uwatec bottom timer as a backup. If the computer fails I just abort the dive.

Even if one doesnt like everything DIR, or is vehemently opposed to *most* things DIR, there are still a lot of good ideas that have come from them that can benefit just about everyone.

Very true. As I say, I have adopted most things DIR but there are still these few areas where I don't think DIR has it right. Maybe when I get round to doing DIR-F someone will convince me otherwise...

 

[BarryNL]

I know if you do night diving ever, it becomes part of your buoyancy profile

Actually, this is somewhere where DIR is showing its age. My HID light provides 4 hours of light and is 300g negative. You're not going to notice that in your buoyancy profile. It also means that the DIR idea that you can dump your light to achieve extra buoyancy no longer applies with modern dive lights.

 

[boomx5]

Actually, I have had a spring strap break on me during a dive ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I could be wrong, but those look like Manta straps to me. I have a pair that I've been using for a few years and I haven't had any problems with them. The one thing I do not do is wear my straps to tight. In fact, my fins may be a bit loose by some standards, but then again I don't wear any of my gear to tight.