Titanium regs and nitrox don't mix??? True or False

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

vidiver

Registered
Messages
14
Reaction score
5
Location
Port Alberni, BC
My local store has just told me that it has been determined within the last year that titanium regs are bad to use with all mixes of nitrox. He claims that the titanium is a fire hazard and that most manufacters are discontining them for that reason.. Bummer, I am waiting for delivery on a scubarpo 25/600T. Is this true, part true or BS?:huh:
 
The owner of the LDS I work for has been using the MK25/S600T for about 3 years and hasn't had any problems. He also doesn't dive with with anything less than EAN36%. I haven't heard him say anything about that problem.

At that same time though the Titanium doesn't have any advantages over the other MK25 first stages other than being a couple ounces lighter. I personally wouldn't waste the extra money just so I could have Titanium.
 
BTW I would normally agree with you about the expense of the regs, I bought these used at a good deal and I wouldn't have bought them otherwise. I have 500 dives on a D400 Scubapro and it is true that they are probably the best sipping reg on the market - and with that kind of heritage I sprung for the upgrade. On the other end of the high-end scale I have a drawer full of Poisidon - "pounders".
Even though you friend is a dive shop owner, and I respect and value his or her opinion, I am still wondering if other people may have heard this rumour as well. It would like to have a difinitive answer from a manufacturer.

I just wrote Scubapro and have asked the same question.
 
I use Nitrox regulary, and have the mk25/s600 scuba pro , and have never had any problems....even after my anual servicing, nothing other than normal has ever come up, maybe the individual you got you info from was thinking about the possibility of the product in the event of a FIRE, in which case the metals used would be able to burn with additional O2.....this happens on aircraft....
 
vidiver:
My local store has just told me that it has been determined within the last year that titanium regs are bad to use with all mixes of nitrox. He claims that the titanium is a fire hazard and that most manufacters are discontining them for that reason.. Bummer, I am waiting for delivery on a scubarpo 25/600T. Is this true, part true or BS?:huh:

Its been know for a long time that titanium is a VERY poor choice for an oxygen enriched enviroment.. About the only metal that burns easier than titanium is magnesium.. Titanium can burn at very low pressures in a 100% enviroment..

You can use a titanium reg with normal nitrox mixes but you better make sure that your dont use the reg on any tank thats not using oxygen compatible gas.. That means dedicating the reg for nitrox use.. Also dont use the reg with nitrox that isnt made using oxygen compatile gas.. Many membrane systems dont meet oxygen compatible gas standards.

I dont know about scubapro's warning but I know Atomic specifically says their titanium regs must be dedicated for nitrox or air use.

Also ALWAYS pressurize the system as SLOWLY as possible, that means slightly cracking the valve to bring the pressure up.. The greatest risk is when the system is being pressureized.

Any contaminates present greatly increases the risk..

DON'T EVER use a titanium reg on a DECO gas..
 
From what I was told at a seminar it's not a problem until you go past 40%,
 
vidiver:
My local store has just told me that it has been determined within the last year that titanium regs are bad to use with all mixes of NITROX. He claims that the titanium is a fire hazard and that most manufacturers are discontinuing them for that reason.. Bummer, I am waiting for delivery on a scubarpo 25/600T. Is this true, part true or BS?:huh:

I have seen the same warning that padiscubapro mentioned. I just bought an Atomic Aquatics B2 regulator. The T2 (Titanium version) specifically stated (via a bright yellow warning sticker) that the purchaser must make a decision at the time of purchase whether the regulator will be dedicated to NITROX or standard air.

Once used for NITROX it has to be dedicated solely to NITROX. The extra cost and this warning convinced me to stick with the B2. I don't think the few ounces of weight is worth the huge price differential. When you add in the NITROX limitation I don't see why anyone would want to spend the extra money if they have any inclination to be NITROX certified.

I also own an ScubaPro MK25SA/S600 regulator that is now becoming my daughter's regulator. This is almost as light as the Titanium at about 1/2 of the price and it can be used with both NITROX and standard air.
 
There's a couple of references I used to decide how I approached this:

The Titanium Metals Corporation has a page that talks about titanium corrosion. They also have a chart that compares the ignition point of titanium when graphed against the oxygen percentage and the pressure flowing across the metal.

There's also a really good article from Aviation, Space, and Environmental Medicine, Link
I won't post the article or even large pieces (that's what the link is for) but here are a few snippets:

When a test was performed under dynamic flow conditions with pure oxygen streaming past the fresh titanium surface, an oxygen partial pressure of 4.4 ATA (446 kPa) was sufficient to ignite and propagate the reaction.

...since the studies by Jackson et al. (1) have shown that titanium would not be expected to burn under any pressure when the oxygen concentration is less than 35%.

The NASA Safety Standard for oxygen and oxygen systems (2) states that titanium must not be used with gaseous oxygen at oxygen pressures above 2 ATA (207 kPa).


I haven't seen any serious commentary regarding the 40% rule for titanium and enhanced air. It's always been comments like "they told us this in a class". If a US manufacturer is willing to back up the 40% with assumed liability, that's a strong argument that something does exist. I would be leery about using it with anything over 36% though, especially considering some of the higher pressure tanks that may be used.

1) Jackson JD, Boyd WK, Miller PD. Reactivity of metals with liquid and gaseous oxygen. Columbus, OH, Battelle Memorial Institute, 1963, 1-26.

2) National Aeronautics and Space Administration. Safety standard for oxygen and oxygen systems; chapter 3. Washington, DC, NASA, 1996, 12.
 
wow! What good advice and so quick.. I agree with what is being said. I understand the importance to proper prep of above 21% regs but when I took my IANTD nitrox a few years back nothing was ever mentioned about Titanium in particuar.
It will be interesting what Scubapro responds with, if they even do. I will let everyone know as soon as I hear.

I think I will resell these regs. If I had known this info I would have never bought the regs. I would be interested in swapping for the X650/25 which is like the shape of the old D400.
 
There are three things that are needed to start a fire: oxygen, fuel and heat. Using a titanium reg with nitrox gives you two of the three. The third could come from heat caused by the shockwave of 3000 psi air hitting a wall in the 1st stage or trying to pass though the restriction in the HP port. So, you can either remove the fuel by going with a standard reg and don't worry about the heat or you can be very carful opening the valve and try to remove the heat (and of course, remember some valves are a bit touchier than others). While I imagine lots of people use Ti regs with recreation nitrox all the time, there have been incidences of the reg actually catching on fire. I'd stick with the D400 if I were you. Besides, don't you know, tungsten is for some reason the latest fad (after rubys didn't catch on).

If you still have your D400, I'd keep it. I doubt anything significant has changed on the SP regs within the last 10 or 15 years.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

Back
Top Bottom