Question Rebreather Full Cave Diver crossover

[fanling]

Hi Guys,

I'm a TDI Full Cave Diver. I would like to get into CCR diving and my goal is to dive in caves. I know TDI has a crossover course from OC Full Cave Diver to Rebreather Full Cave Diver (given that you have the certification i.e MOD1, 2...etc first). The question that I have is choosing the CCR unit and instructor. Does the instructor only certified on specific unit for Rebreather Full Cave Diver course or it does not matter? I'm deciding to get a Dive talk go or Choptima but the certification path is unclear for me. Thanks guys.

Cheers,
Fan

 

[kensuf]

Currently, the general requirements for most agencies to crossover from OC Full Cave to CCR Full Cave you need to be certified on a rebreather and have about 50 hours on the unit. The requirements for the instructor conducting the OC to CCR crossover are that they need to be certified as a diver on the unit you will be using (and they need to be an instructor on the unit they are diving).

This means if you selected a DT Go as your rebreather, the instructor conducting your CCR Cave Crossover/Upgrade only needs to be certified at the diver level on the DT Go. Many of us are certified as diver level on units that we're not instructors on (ex. I'm certified as diver level on the JJ, X-CCR, Liberty, and many others), which allows us to teach CCR Cave to divers on those units.

 

[Mobulai]

Does the instructor only certified on specific unit for Rebreather Full Cave Diver course or it does not matter?

Some and some, even tho I’m not really knowledgeable in that area(not a cave/cavren diver, only mod1 on 1 unit)
For example Jaeck (an Instructor trainer for KISS sidewinder) is also a cave ccr instructor for other multitude of units (from my limited understanding) that means he doesn’t necessarily train you how to use an AP inspiration but how to use it in cave context
I really doubt he can train people in OW how to use an AP (ie mod1/2/3)
Edit: scratch that, take kensufs word for it

Regarding the GO; I have doubts about its compatibility with caves — unless this is a BO/deco only rebreather

 

[Mobulai]

@kensuf I have a question regarding the „opposite“ path (I’m again far from it just prepping fro the future); as a mod1 diver, let’s say in the next 2 years I plan for mod2 as well
At that point, what are my options to jump into cave diving — I know I’ll have to probably start with OC cave, but can I capitalize on my prior ccr experience for „combined trainings? What possible paths would I have

 

[BoltSnap]

Currently, the general requirements for most agencies to crossover from OC Full Cave to CCR Full Cave you need to be certified on a rebreather and have about 50 hours on the unit. The requirements for the instructor conducting the OC to CCR crossover are that they need to be certified as a diver on the unit you will be using (and they need to be an instructor on the unit they are diving).

This means if you selected a DT Go as your rebreather, the instructor conducting your CCR Cave Crossover/Upgrade only needs to be certified at the diver level on the DT Go. Many of us are certified as diver level on units that we're not instructors on (ex. I'm certified as diver level on the JJ, X-CCR, Liberty, and many others), which allows us to teach CCR Cave to divers on those units.

Are there CCR-only cave diving courses where the student starts cave training from the beginning on CCR through full cave cert all on CCR (if they are already CCR certified before the CCR cave training)?

 

[rddvet]

If your goal is to cave dive skip the go. If your goal isn’t to cave dives kip the go.

 

[rddvet]

@kensuf
At that point, what are my options to jump into cave diving — I know I’ll have to probably start with OC cave, but can I capitalize on my prior ccr experience for „combined trainings? What possible paths would I have

The general consensus (at least of the instructors I respect) is take cave OC, then add the ccr cert down the road as you gain some experience in the caves. Some will argue its unnecessary, but if your ccr fails you're diving OC. Ensuring those cave skills are honed first is the right choice. CCR has tons of benefits to experienced cave divers. But it can also be overwhelming when dealing with distractions. Cave diving can go south quickly with tons of distractions. So getting cave skills honed OC will in most cases lead to a better long term experience

Are there CCR-only cave diving courses where the student starts cave training from the beginning on CCR through full cave cert all on CCR (if they are already CCR certified before the CCR cave training)?

Yes there are, but see above. I will say that some CCR divers with very solid foundational skills and tech diving experience can pull it off. But I would say most good instructors want you to learn on OC first unless you're one of the 5% of already exceptional ccr divers.

 

[Mobulai]

5% of already exceptional ccr divers.

I think I belong to the bottom 5% (OC and CC); I’ll stick to the in parallel track (solidify my CC skills for when I’m ready for the CaveCC crossover); but at an earlier point when my OC skills are more solid go for oc cave training
Maybe an important decision/question (more on the financial side): does cave ccr class differentiate between mod levels?
Hypothetical: if I do cave ccr with only mod1 (is that even possible) and then do mod2/3 in ow, can I cave ccr dive to mod2/3 limits or do I have to redo the class?

 

[fanling]

If your goal is to cave dive skip the go. If your goal isn’t to cave dives kip the go.

May I know why?

 

[Dsix36]

I am by no means one of those exceptional ccr diver as mentioned above but I still somewhat disagree with what was said. I was always very comfortable and capable on OC and had absolutely no OC tech experience (never had doubles on my back and hopefully never will. I was where you are now and was ready to start my tech adventure. A trusted friend, and tech instructor, told me to just skip the OC stuff since I was planning to go to a ccr anyway (I was currently diving a scr a lot also) and just jump right to the ccr to save time, money, and having to unlearn muscle memory from OC. I did the "zero to hero" cave training on my ccr when I had about 75 hour on my first ccr. I will say that if you are not 110% comfortable with all aspects of OC that maybe this is not the right route though since it will be your life line when (not if) your ccr fails.