Kiss Gem Instructor

[ryanchris]

Hello All,

I am new to the board and I am trying to start to get into rebreather diving. I saw an add for the mares horizon and liked the idea of that but it seems to have a pretty bad rep on here maybe because of the Horizon failure not sure.... But then I ran across the Kiss Gem and that looks interesting, but I couldnt really find much in the way of info online for them. I searched TDI and only really saw one instructor in Florida or around. Just wondering if anyone knows any instructors on the unit other than Doug Ebersole? I ask since I know he probably has a real busy schedule based on an email with him. Anyone in warm water areas is perfered, and since it is going to be summer in the USA soon maybe that will open up more options thanks or any help.

 

[Jake 10]

Leaving in South Florida gives you an advantage, you have lots of local shops that sell scuba gear. Try contacting several of them that have different brands and ask for an in-face demonstration.

 

[ryanchris]

Ill give that a try, I have been mostly just looking online for the instructors from the TDI site, I searched most of the states close and only saw one instructor around thus the post.

 

[davehicks]

Run away, fast from the GEM or any other SCR unit. A number of people I dove with about 10-12 years ago tried the GEM and it was a mess and glitch filled disaster from day one. Every single one either abandoned it or move to a CCR unit in short order. You will find this to be an expensive, time-wasting dead end I promise.

If the GEM appeals to you, look at the KISS Spirit or a similar mCCR unit. Some of the same design principles, but it actually works reliably and delivers the benefits of CCR without the comprimises and disappointments of SCR.

 

[ryanchris]

Run away, fast from the GEM or any other SCR unit. A number of people I dove with about 10-12 years ago tried the GEM and it was a mess and glitch filled disaster from day one. Every single one either abandoned it or move to a CCR unit in short order. You will find this to be an expensive, time-wasting dead end I promise.

If the GEM appeals to you, look at the KISS Spirit or a similar mCCR unit. Some of the same design principles, but it actually works reliably and delivers the benefits of CCR without the comprimises and disappointments of SCR.

I have read that, and as I noted I understand most here dont seem to like any SCR, just not sure why. My thinking was just use it from time to time, for say if I travel somewhere that doesnt have o2 fills or sorb for the CCR. I am going to try to pick a CCR / get training for that sometime soon too.. Just trying to weigh the options so to speak. Not sure if there are many touristy dive places like that (no o2 fills or sorb sales) but I have heard / read that it happens not sure if the info is outdated though since it seems there are more CCR divers and units now...

 

[Mobulai]

I have read that, and as I noted I understand most here dont seem to like any SCR, just not sure why. My thinking was just use it from time to time, for say if I travel somewhere that doesnt have o2 fills or sorb for the CCR. I am going to try to pick a CCR / get training for that sometime soon too.. Just trying to weigh the options so to speak. Not sure if there are many touristy dive places like that (no o2 fills or sorb sales) but I have heard / read that it happens not sure if the info is outdated though since it seems there are more CCR divers and units now...

I agree with David, SCR is almost all the risk (in some fronts higher risk) of CCR with much less gains

If you have no sorb at a destination, both xCR modes are unavailable anyway (ok SCR is still possible, but it becomes almost OC with extra gear complexity)

If you have no o2 fills, accelerated deco on OC is out of the question, so just dive nitrox in OC
SCR has higher WOB on a loop than OC, so you lose lots to gain just a bit more run time (in the above scenario you’ll be limited by NDL anyway)

 

[davehicks]

I have read that, and as I noted I understand most here dont seem to like any SCR, just not sure why. My thinking was just use it from time to time, for say if I travel somewhere that doesnt have o2 fills or sorb for the CCR. I am going to try to pick a CCR / get training for that sometime soon too.. Just trying to weigh the options so to speak. Not sure if there are many touristy dive places like that (no o2 fills or sorb sales) but I have heard / read that it happens not sure if the info is outdated though since it seems there are more CCR divers and units now...

I am telling you than the GEM is a piece of crap and that is why people don't like it. Mystery solved!

You still need Sorb for an SCR. And you need Nitrox. Most dive operators that can provide nitrox can also provide oxygen, as nitrox is just oxygen added to air. So they have it on hand. You can bring your own sorb if needed, it's just a 45lbs checked bag.

It is flakey and harder to use than a CCR. It has all of the prerequisites of the CCR (cost, training, maintenance, cleaning, sorb, o2 sensors, complication, and dedication) but almost none of the benefits. It extends gas supply but not NDL. You can build up more deco obligations on longer dives but it does not shorten the deco time like a CCR does. It's not silent and still has lots of bubbles.

You are far better off taking training to work on your trim and buoyancy, which will improve your air consumption to at least the degree an SCR might. Or go for a CCR.

The GEM is a decade old failed product. I am pretty sure it's not sold new anymore, and I'd be shocked if you can still find an instructor training new students on it.

 

[Asheron]

Horizon and Gem diver here. If you are really interested in diving an SCR go with the Horizon. The SSI training materials blow all other agencies I have used out of the water: TDI, Padi, PSAI.

I sold the GEM and regret it, but more as a novelty to dive, it was by no means a good unit. SCRs suck shallower than 50ft, the swings in FO2 is just too drastic on the GEM mouthpiece and the Horizon will be injecting nitrox at a fast rate to try and maintain the set point FO2 unless a really high nitrox mix is used……..which then limits your flexibility during the dive with a shallow MOD.

I have since moved to a CCR and am very happy with what is actually a much simpler system to plan my dives with since I am not dealing with Loop FO2 calculations and shallow MOD tradeoffs.

If you really really want a SCR get an RB80 or a Tres Presidentes.

 

[evandroairton]

Go the CCR route, same hassle, better diving

 

[Cio]

@ryanchris
I have a GEM and love it, I have hundreds of hours on it in SCR and have done plenty of technical dives on it. ( Read more) I would not call it a failed product and although I converted it to CCR and primarily dive ti that way now, I have still used it in SCR mode in places without O2. Since the GEM DSV has the same fittings as the typical KISS DSV, I can just change the mouthpiece to convert. ( And plug the injection port.)

For training use Doug. I assume there are others but he is excellent and if he'll do it, I'd recommend him.

This was a non traditional route and it took an enormous amount of effort to do. I do not dive it in stock form and converted it to CM at around 40 hours. ( In had this plan when I bought it.) I dove it in stock form with double LP50 with the scrubber mounted in the center, for wreck diving it was not a good fit, If you are blue water diving, it will be fine in stock form.

If you are looking for a challenging path, it offers this up a plenty. Something like the horizon would offer much greater ease although I'd argue the GEM is more capable if you put the effort into it. . I knew this going in and wanted it. SCR is far more complex in planning and in practice, gas switches are required for technical diving and you will need a bunch of tanks if you want to have the proper gas mixes for varied dive profiles. If you're just looking to get in cheap, this isn't it. If your are looking for a challenge and have the technical aptitude, funds and time to do it, it can be done and I think the experience made me a much better diver. If you are limited on funds and/or time, CCR will get you further faster and cheaper with less headache. I'd be lying if I did not, multiple times, question why I was doing this. OH, and people will give you all kinds of sh!t about it.

If you don't have one, don't count on finding one anytime soon, I looked for a while and have poked around since I got mine and have only seen one come up.