Neon as Helium replacement

[JackZwykle]

It was recently mentioned in a post in another section.

Does anyone have data / experience newer than https://www.researchgate.net/publication/235031111_Neon_Decompression ?

 

[Chris-Wood]

How many noble gases are dyslexic?

Neon.

 

[lowwall]

Going the wrong way on the Periodic Table.

 

[JackZwykle]

Going the wrong way on the Periodic Table.

Ah ok, I just checked the molecular mass...

 

[tursiops]

Going the wrong way on the Periodic Table.

Wrong way for what?
?? It is the next noble gas?? He, Ne, Ar,...

 

[elmo]

Wrong way for what?
?? It is the next noble gas?? He, Ne, Ar,...

It is heavier than Nitrogen and Oxygen, and would be expected to be more narcotic. The OP’s linked paper wasn’t encouraging.

 

[runsongas]

@JackZwykle neon is usable to replace helium if you wanted to counteract narcosis. the reason it isn't used is because it costs even more than helium due to industrial need for it in usage with lasers, photolithography, etc. and it is less available due to the war in Ukraine

a research grade T cylinder from airgas of neon is close to 6k currently iirc

 

[lowwall]

I'll elaborate. The diving community has figured out that minimizing work of breathing is a much more important factor in safe diving than was thought at the time the referenced study was published (1974).

Since, roughly, the larger the molecule, the greater the density and thus work of breathing, there is little interest in heavier molecules like Neon for technical mixes.

In fact, there's been initial research and now real dives going the other way in terms of molecular weight by substituting Helium with Hydrogen despite the mechanical (as opposed to biological) safety concerns:

Thread 'Report on first deep hydrogen dive using a rebreather'

Mar 31, 2024

Hello,

This subject has come up in a few threads elsewhere, but the 'official' (peer reviewed) report on the hydrogen dive performed by Richard Harris in the Pearse Resurgence last year was published yesterday in Diving and Hyperbaric Medicine Journal. I have attached the paper here.

Harris RJ, Challen CJ, Mitchell SJ. The first deep rebreather dive using hydrogen; case report. Diving Hyperb Med. 2024;54(1):69-72. doi: 10.28920/dhm54.1.69-72. PMID: 38507913.

Simon M

• Dr Simon Mitchell
• Replies: 19
• Forum: Rebreather Diving

• 

Although if the price of Helium continues to rise, I could see someone trying this Neon instead of "deep air" in the 30-60m range (100-200').

[Edit to clarify last paragraph.]

 

[runsongas]

@lowwall hydrogen is unattractive for 30m to 60m due to the LEL limitations within the limits of normoxic mixes

 

[lowwall]

@lowwall hydrogen is unattractive for 30m to 60m due to the LEL limitations within the limits of normoxic mixes

I meant Neon, not Hydrogen. I've edited my last sentence to make it clear.

Neon is actually less dense than air since air mostly consists of O2 and N2 molecule instead of single O and N atoms. But it's around 5x the density of He and 10x the density of H2.