When to donate air?

[DrWilliam]

In what scenarios might someone appropriately donate air to a Low On Air (LOA) diver who is not OOA?

It is my training and mine and my partner's plan that we will first of all stay aware of our own and each other's air but in the situation of a surprise loss of awareness LOA we will immediately begin a normal ascent and closely monitor and be ready to donate if LOA turns into OOA.

I bring this up because I somewhat often see other divers LOA in large guided groups being donated air prior to being OOA, sometimes by a buddy but almost always by a guide / instructor. Is this ever really appropriate? I think this is also compounded by the insistence of "return to boat" mandatory psi's making people start to panic when they really have plenty of air to end their dive safely. On a recent Red Sea liveaboard we were told return with 750 psi. I watched many divers anxiously signaling divemasters when they were at maybe 40 feet and maybe 900 psi and an ascent had not yet been signaled by guide. They were clearly anxious they would not make it back with 750 psi. Some of them were donated air by the guide during ascent while not even close to OOA.

I don't mean to start a huge discussion about "be back on the boat with xxx psi" but am I missing something about when to donate? Some scenarios I'm not considering? As I ponder this more closely, I am wondering, for instance, that if it looks like someone WILL go OOA or is highly likely to go OOA during the ascent (say they signal me they have 300 psi and we are at 60 feet) is it wise to immediately begin donating and ascending with the intention that I am leaving them a "backup" 300 psi reserve?

Appreciate everyone's thoughts.

 

[dmaziuk]

Dive guides tend to have more gas to spare and it tends to be nitrox. If you don't have enough air to complete your safety stop, accelerated off-gassing on the DM's nitrox can somewhat compensate for that.

It is also a question of whether the group is expected to surface together, or every buddy pair has their own SMB and gets picked up separately whenever they come up. In the former case it's more likely that the guide will try to extend the airhogs' dive time.

 

[BoltSnap]

In what scenarios might someone appropriately donate air to a Low On Air (LOA) diver who is not OOA?

If and when they owe you money.

 

[mr_v]

@DrWilliam, divers in large groups as you've described are a liability in waiting, so donating early is a risk mitigation strategy by those in charge. You donate in case of an emergency or according to plan. Sounds like you and your buddy got it covered. Also, be prepared to donate when your buddy does drills or when you see your bud doing something odd/suspicious.

 

[NAUI Wowie]

In what scenarios might someone appropriately donate air to a Low On Air (LOA) diver who is not OOA?

It is my training and mine and my partner's plan that we will first of all stay aware of our own and each other's air but in the situation of a surprise loss of awareness LOA we will immediately begin a normal ascent and closely monitor and be ready to donate if LOA turns into OOA.

I bring this up because I somewhat often see other divers LOA in large guided groups being donated air prior to being OOA, sometimes by a buddy but almost always by a guide / instructor. Is this ever really appropriate? I think this is also compounded by the insistence of "return to boat" mandatory psi's making people start to panic when they really have plenty of air to end their dive safely. On a recent Red Sea liveaboard we were told return with 750 psi. I watched many divers anxiously signaling divemasters when they were at maybe 40 feet and maybe 900 psi and an ascent had not yet been signaled by guide. They were clearly anxious they would not make it back with 750 psi. Some of them were donated air by the guide during ascent while not even close to OOA.

I don't mean to start a huge discussion about "be back on the boat with xxx psi" but am I missing something about when to donate? Some scenarios I'm not considering? As I ponder this more closely, I am wondering, for instance, that if it looks like someone WILL go OOA or is highly likely to go OOA during the ascent (say they signal me they have 300 psi and we are at 60 feet) is it wise to immediately begin donating and ascending with the intention that I am leaving them a "backup" 300 psi reserve?

Appreciate everyone's thoughts.

I usually donate air upon the third request. unless im taking photos and I have to finish the shot, then I donate.

 

[BRT]

Donating air when your buddy still has plenty to get out of the water is a simple way to extend a dive. Continuing a dive like this when one buddy is out or almost out is foolish.

 

[TMHeimer]

The only way I would donate air to a buddy was if he/she was OOA and we go to the surface. I wouldn't at all mess with extending a dive. Besides, that would be cumbersome anyway.

 

[mr_v]

The only way I would donate air to a buddy was if he/she was OOA and we go to the surface. I wouldn't at all mess with extending a dive. Besides, that would be cumbersome anyway.

It makes sense to donate before your buddy is very low on air. The logic is simple: you want to avoid an emergency. Also, you do not want to have a buddy with a nearly or completely empty tank in case if something happens. Knowing that there is some margin may help your friend, too. Unfortunately, once tank pressure is low, the gauge is less accurate, and it is better to be safe than sorry.

If you have a regular diving buddy, then agree to share air if one of you reaches 600-700PSI. That way, you can ascend safely knowing that the buddy who is low on air has at least some air in the tank. If you plan and train properly, then you should never find yourself in that position. Also, sharing air should not be a messy thing. If it is, your team needs to practice more and better.

 

[TMHeimer]

It makes sense to donate before your buddy is very low on air. The logic is simple: you want to avoid an emergency. Also, you do not want to have a buddy with a nearly or completely empty tank in case if something happens. Knowing that there is some margin may help your friend, too. Unfortunately, once tank pressure is low, the gauge is less accurate, and it is better to be safe than sorry.

If you have a regular diving buddy, then agree to share air if one of you reaches 600-700PSI. That way, you can ascend safely knowing that the buddy who is low on air has at least some air in the tank. If you plan and train properly, then you should never find yourself in that position. Also, sharing air should not be a messy thing. If it is, your team needs to practice more and better.

You make some good points, especially about never being in that situation. When such a situation occurs, it means that one (or both?) buddies didn't follow their training. It is a tangent of the old buddy vs. solo debate. One is probably safer solo than with a buddy who may go low/out of air and panic, but I digress.

Yes, I can see what you mean about donating if the buddy is seriously low on air, and how low would depend on the depth your at (500 psi is a whole lot more at 30 feet than at 90). This means of course the buddy was neglectful, but sharing sooner than later MAY be the best way to get the buddy to the surface. I got a bit tied up when it was brought up the practice of DMs donating air to keep a group dive going. Maybe this is one reason I don't do those type of dives. Being a single diver (my wife doesn't), I've often been in a position on a boat where I have an "instabuddy", so all the pre-dive talking and planning in the world isn't the same as being with a regular buddy you can trust. Everyone should be self-sufficient, whether they take a solo course or not, but that's in an ideal world.

 

[lermontov]

if your deep in a cave with 2-3 people and someone has a problem - you can each donate (lets say 50 bar each while still retaining their 1/3s) while in an easy spot so that the person who has a problem can exit more easily later on (or go through a tight spot on their own )