Zero to Hero another look

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

The recent Zero-to-Hero thread piqued my interest in reviewing this recurring issue and I did not want to hijack it. I am not advocating the Zero-to-Hero route, never have. But I have successfully run a handful of divers through a cave Zero-to-Hero class.

Before I commit to taking these folks on I ask them to read this page, think about it and get back to me.

 

[RainPilot]

That's a good clear example of expectation management, Jim.

 

[rjack321]

The recent Zero-to-Hero thread piqued my interest in reviewing this recurring issue and I did not want to hijack it. I am not advocating the Zero-to-Hero route, never have. But I have successfully run a handful of divers through a cave Zero-to-Hero class.

Before I commit to taking these folks on I ask them to read this page, think about it and get back to me.

I would still prefer a break between intro and full (pick whatever agency terminology you wish) for students to do a minimum number of intro level "mainline" type dives with a minor amount of navigation decisions (one T or one gap would be a positive compared to "no" navigational decisions) and conservative gas management (1/4ths at most). By allowing/having one navigational decision it starts to build good habits early, like using a jump spool for gaps or marking Ts. NAUI Cave 1 standards are the closest to my image of ideal except for being too permissive on gas I think.

By minimum, I think 25 intro dives but I would prefer more like 40. This is without an instructor present and in a variety of systems, at least 6 systems but having experience in 10 systems would be a good expectation before starting full.

I feel the same way about some trimix courses where students combine MOD2 and MOD3 in a week or whatever. Yes it can be done, it can even be rigorous. But it can't replace time in the water learning and solidifying skills at each level before moving on. I also think zero to hero devalues intro level cave diving and elevates "full cave" to perhaps be exalted more than it should be. More full cave people should do more intro dives in my humble opinion, preferably with the intro level divers doing their 40 dives.

 

[RainPilot]

Seems like @oya has been on the same line of thought recently....

https://www.xoc-ha.com/post/zero-to...KBoZjk0HiF3t4tb6jrpvwElCiLV-bPE44LvqeONFSH_1Y

 

[irycio]

Seems like @oya has been on the same line of thought recently....

https://www.xoc-ha.com/post/zero-to...KBoZjk0HiF3t4tb6jrpvwElCiLV-bPE44LvqeONFSH_1Y

Totally digging @oya 's blog posts.

On the zero-to-hero topic (not that with my experience I can really voice an opinion) what I find interesting is who are the people that decide/insist on that way when it comes to where they live and dive. If they lived next to caves and could dive there frequently, then I presume they would be fine spreading the training over extended period of time. On the other hand, if they live far from the caves, how do they intend to really use their training and especially keep their skills fresh? Somehow nobody promotes AN/DP/Noromoxic/Hypoxic in 2 weeks combo.

Guess just rambling a bit OT, but if anyone has observations on where do people desiring such training come from I'd be curious.

 

[Superlyte27]

So, I’ve taught several zero to hero over the years. I think the number who have passed are like 2 people.

the people who did pass had been tech diving for decades. I didn’t have to teach them to dive in doubles, they could do it just as well as I could. I didn’t have to teach them to frog kick, they could frog kick just as well as I could. I didn’t have to teach them buoyancy control. Their’s was just as good as mine. So, we focused on what they didn’t know how to do....dive in a cave. They knew nothing of running a reel properly or a lights out air share drill, or complex navigation.

if you come to me really having your crap together and you have a good and safe attitude, you’ll likely pass my zero to hero. If you come to me with marginal skills, no time in doubles and you started frog kicking last week, you’re probably going to fail.

now, I don’t care where you live, your deficits, whatever they may be, can be honed and fixed anywhere. You can have good bouyancy anywhere. You can frog kick anywhere. You can work on situational awareness anywhere. You can tie a line to a rock anywhere. So, learn what you need to learn, then go home and practice if it’s necessary.

 

[Wibble]

Before I commit to taking these folks on I ask them to read this page, think about it and get back to me.

Just reading that makes me want to book a course with you. That's a really professional attitude and to the point. Anyone who's got those skills will immediately understand and concur with this.

Far too many people have been mollycoddled throughout their diving career. At this level you should have well-sorted core skills and expect complete honesty from your instructor/coach.

 

[Superlyte27]

I’ve co-taught classes with practically every big named instructor in Florida. @Capt Jim Wyatt does a fantastic job. If you suck, you won’t pass. If you got a card from Jim, you did a great job and you earned it. You can’t go wrong using him for instruction.

And he’s way funnier and nicer than me

 

[Wibble]

TBH I was pretty much referring to most people on this thread

It's the fault of the entry-level courses and the lack of people being firmly encouraged to sort their core skills. It is appreciated that classic recreational diving - few times a year on holiday - doesn't 'need' the sorted skills required for technical diving, but it is so frustrating if you're ever caught up with that laissez-faire advanced/'master', everyone's good (but not really) approach. Meh. Must get off the hobby horse.

(As for a cave course, I dream of even being able to do any dive at the moment, literally even a pool dive! All good little prisoners over here and we'll probably all be kept on our little island for the whole of this year. Still, at least we've thousands of wrecks to dive upon, and maybe some fresh ones if we can entice the EU navy out of port )