Liveaboards vs day trip boats safety differences

[cerich]

BY A LOT..and this isn't talking about or taking into account diving accidents, it's accidents on the vessel.

This is so outside the bell curve it should be ringing bells throughout the dive industry (see what I did there?)

But it isn't, and the fiction that a dive boat is just a taxi continues to be canon that is preventing recognition and action to improve safety.

I have been harping for years that the dive industry culture when it comes to vessel operation is significantly different than the culture of a professional mariner. While dive industry folks may get the requisite mariners license to operate a vessel for divers the culture of far too many from the dive industry is entirely different than when a professional mariner finds themself taking divers in many aspect of operation. Now, we have some stats that support my rantings.

In general commercial operations under SOLAS, for every 37.8 accidents on a vessel there is one death.
In diving live boards, for every accident there is 2 deaths.

Link to the Article of Live Aboard Safety

 

[Vicko]

To be fair in commercial operations the victims are usually fit, or at least medically cleared crew members and the accidents are reported even if it's "just" a broken bone.

On a liveaboard the reporting is much more lax, having 20 reported falls down the stairs due to intoxicated customers looks bad on the tourists brochure.

 

[BoltSnap]

Just and FYI, a liveaboard sunk here in Hurghada last week after a fire started in the galley. Reportedly one foreign female client died in the fire. All others were picked up by the Egyptian coast guard.

Today, a foreign female client was ran over by a dive boat, not the one she was diving from. The prop amputated her entire arm.

 

[cerich]

To be fair in commercial operations the victims are usually fit, or at least medically cleared crew members and the accidents are reported even if it's "just" a broken bone.

On a liveaboard the reporting is much more lax, having 20 reported falls down the stairs due to intoxicated customers looks bad on the tourists brochure.

Negative ghost rider, that includes SOLAS passenger vessels, many larger yachts and also cruise ships, ferries etc. Your argument doesn't hold water

 

[Wookie]

The author of the study missed a lot of accidents (Collision on Bahamas Master, sinking of Captain's Lady, grounding of Aggressor in Belize etc), and that's just a couple of boats that had passengers on them. Missing accidents makes the ratio skew in an unfortunate direction.

But his point that no one keeps track is correct. ScubaBoard probably has far better records than anyone does, for both liveaboard fatalaties as well as accidents involving the liveaboard itself.

 

[kammel78]

Negative ghost rider, that includes SOLAS passenger vessels, many larger yachts and also cruise ships, ferries etc. Your argument doesn't hold water

You're killing me with the puns, Chris.

 

[Vicko]

Negative ghost rider, that includes SOLAS passenger vessels, many larger yachts and also cruise ships, ferries etc. Your argument doesn't hold water

That's the point, SOLAS (passenger) vessels report everything as the company would take a major fine if it was proven that they are hiding anything.
I know of at least 2 serious liveaboard incidents in Croatia just last year that thankfully ended with minor injuries and you will not find any report anywhere, because reporting it would result in a bigger fine than getting caught not reporting it. We even had a case of multiple fatalities due to carbon monoxide poisoning and the only reports you will find are from local newspapers.

Look at the map in the article, do you truly believe that except the Conception fire the only liveaboard accidents over the past 18 years happened in third world countries?

 

[cerich]

That's the point, SOLAS (passenger) vessels report everything as the company would take a major fine if it was proven that they are hiding anything.
I know of at least 2 serious liveaboard incidents in Croatia just last year that thankfully ended with minor injuries and you will not find any report anywhere, because reporting it would result in a bigger fine than getting caught not reporting it. We even had a case of multiple fatalities due to carbon monoxide poisoning and the only reports you will find are from local newspapers.

Look at the map in the article, do you truly believe that except the Conception fire the only liveaboard accidents over the past 18 years happened in third world countries?

you know that you are making the point that liveaboards are a problem even stronger right?

 

[Wookie]

Negative ghost rider, that includes SOLAS passenger vessels, many larger yachts and also cruise ships, ferries etc. Your argument doesn't hold water

While Vicko's statement is not factually correct, it is also the same tact taken by the US Coast Guard. Passenger vessels in the oilfield, and in fishing service (Yes, there are liveaboard fishing head boats as well as dive boats) are allowed to have a door under the bulkhead deck from a passenger compartment to a machinery space. Fishermen and oilfield workers are expected to be far more physically fit than divers and can be trained to shut the door when it's noisy. Had such a door been present in Conception, passengers could have easily exited the berthing area en mass, traveled through the main machinery space, popped up on deck in the fresh air, and gone for a swim instead of dying like sheep in an abattoir.

I'm a little bitter over this lack of door....

 

[Vicko]

you know that you are making the point that liveaboards are a problem even stronger right?

Liveaboards (and their lack of common sense safety procedures) are a problem, but a study that uses inadequate data at best (I would not call it fraudulent until I actually find the study) can't be taken seriously.