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Hocky

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Hi

I know that 100% oxygen is toxic after 14m, and that oxygen starts to change and become toxic at 56m, but I have no idea why?

Does oxygen become toxic at altitude as well as depth?

Can anyone help?

Hocky
 
As far as I know, oxygen toxicity isn't fully understood, but as divers we need to know that too much oxygen can cause all sorts of problems, including convulsions and subsequent drowning.
I recommend you take a Nitrox course.
And no, oxygen doesn't get toxic at lower pressures (altitude), but if the pressure gets low enough you'll have problems from a lack of oxygen, which can kill you without drowning you.
Rick
 
Hocky,

100% o2 has a maximum decompression depth of 6m (PPo2=1.6). Anything below this has too much risk of a hit.

Max depth for air (from an o2 perspective) is 56m if using PPo2 of 1.4 and 66m if you risk 1.6PPo2.

Taking a Nitrox course would explain some of this.

DiverDave
 
Mr. Hocky...

Whereas the increasing density of inert gases (nitrogen being the most prevalent in recreational diving) has a narcotic effect on the central nervous system, the increasing density of oxygen seems to have a "short circuiting" effect on the synapses of our brains. Thus the "toxicity" refers to the electrical/chemical changes in our cerebral circuitry that can result in visual disturbances, tinitus (ringing ears), nausea, twitching, irritability & dizziness, with eventual convulsion & loss of conciousness.

For a more in-depth physiological explanation outlining the current understanding of this phenomena we must look to the attending physicians...gentlemen, can you enlighten us further?

Regards,
D.S.D.

 
Dear Mr Hocky :

[sp] Oxygen does not "begin to become toxic" at depth; it is in reality always toxic. The original one-cell inhabitants of this planet lived in a world without much atmospheric oxygen. As plants evolved, they used carbon dioxide and water and converted it to oxygen (the common process of photsynthesis). As animal-like dwellers evolved, they used the ability to derive energy from foods (rather than sunlight) and the new gasseous oxygen. They also found it necessary to adapt to this environmental condition.

[sp] To this end, animals developed chemical systems (enzymes) that they used against the byproducts of oxygen metabolism. These are harmful compounds, such as hydrogen peroxide and superoxide anion free radical, come from electron transfer mechanisms (occurring within cells as part of metabolism) as reactants (= foods) are broken down to form chemical energy (= ATP = adenosine triphosphate) and carbon dioxide.

[sp]The protective reagents (like enzymes) such as catalase, and superoxide dismutase are always present in cells but only in a given concentration. This level is sufficient to convert harmful compounds to harmless ones under normal conditions of life. The problem (for divers anyway) is what occurs when we take in too much oxygen for the chemical defense mechanisms to control. The familiar OXYGEN TOXICITY problem arises.

[sp] As long as both the exposure pressure and time of expose are controlled, the harmful byproducts are degraded without any untoward events occurring. Should these limits be transgressed (and they are somewhat variable within a group of individuals), oxygen poisoning results. The lung is susceptible to lower limits but the manifestations occur only after hours of exposure. The central nervous system (= brain) is protected to a degree; higher oxygen pressures are allowed, but the exposure duration is curtailed. In actuality, all organs of the body can be oxygen poisoned. Administering an anesthetic, for example, to prevent oxygen seizures only opens the door for poisoning to other organs.

[sp] Thus, it is clear that toxicity does not in actuality START at any given depth. As one ascends to altitude, the effects of toxicity are mitigated. At altitude, however, other problems such as hypoxia occur. Here one can be injured by such problems as altitude or mountain sickness for non-accommodated individuals.

______________
Dr. Deco
 
Dear Dr Deco,

That was as about as lucid as an explanation can be! You are jammers!!! I hope that those on this board read that closely (re-read as needed till oxtox goes away) and try to understand the balancing act we are trying to perform with our bodies in the great blue sea. I have an even "deeper" question for you (pardon pun)...

I have not taken my advanced Nitrox or Trimix yet, so I am not about to experiment with my health on this. BUT, could you explain the ramifications of using Helium in the tri-mix, other than the primary diluent effect that it is used for. Does it have reactive effects as well, or is Helium inert enough to be mostly benign??? Are some of the other noble gases, like argon, useful as well? If for no other reason but to keep the pp of Oxygen and Nitrogen to tolerable levels?

Pete from Orlando...
 
Thanks Dr Deco, really appreciate the feedback.

I seriously had no idea. I thought that the change was actually in the 02 and that somehow the O2 changed compostition at depth. I had a discussion with another instructor this morning (after reading your reply) and asked him if he knew why 02 became toxic. He thought the same as I did.....but is now happily enlightened.

Appreciate the information and enlightenment.

Hocky
 
Hey Dr. Deco,

Most excellent response.

Thank you.

DocVikingo
 
Dear Pete:

Yes, the use of the inert gas diluents is to reduce the partial pressure of oxygen while at the same time acting as a counter pressure to the weight of water. (Many divers do not realize that the ability of our chest muscles to expand the thoracic cavity, and the lungs, at depth is what requires us to use compressed gas in the water. If we had super strong chest muscles, we would not need the counter pressure of the breathing gas.)

People over the years have investigated different inert diluents for diving. It is necessary that the gases are inert in the body, or, if they have an effect, it is not untoward. The inert gases (sometimes called the “rare gases,” although argon is not rare at all) are narcotic to some degree, with the exception of helium. We are all aware that the narcotic property of gases such as nitrogen is quite high at moderate pressure; a gas such as nitrous oxide (the “laughing gas” used in a dentist’s office) is narcotic at atmospheric pressure. :loopy:

Since the gases are inert under conditions of the body’s temperature and pressure, they do not form any reactive compounds. However, that does not necessarily make all of the inert gases suitable for diving. Let us look at these.
  • HELIUM was first discovered on the sun :fire: by astronomers using a spectroscope (the glass device that breaks up light into the colors of the rainbow). The gas was soon discovered in natural gas wells in the southwest part of Texas (the gas from the wells burned poorly), and it was introduced into diving because it was poorly soluble and did not produce narcosis. It has a bad effect on speech (the “Donald duck” voice) and causes the loss of heat from a diver’s body. It is not very soluble in adipose (= fat) tissue.
  • NEON was investigated as a diving gas at the Ocean Systems, Inc., laboratories when I was there in the early 1970’s. (Bill Hamilton, PhD, known to many recreational divers, was the Principle Investigator on that project.) This gas is similar in decompression characteristics to helium, but it has less speech distortion and the heat loss is reduced. Its main advantage was that it was available throughout the world (as a helium/neon mixture), being derived from air (by fractional distillation) in the production of oxygen for industrial purposes.
  • ARGON is not suitable for diving because of its high lipid (= fat) solubility. This gas (in addition to being somewhat narcotic) will produce too many gas bubbles in the adipose tissues of the body. These are then released into the venous return (= the veins) where they can then flow to the lungs. Because so many bubbles are produced, in many cases the bubbles pass the lung capillaries and enter the arterial circulation (“arterialization”). This then leads to a (vein-to-artery) stroke, the so-called cerebral gas embolism.
  • HYDROGEN was used as a diving gas, because it has a worldwide availability and was less costly than helium. It is a good gas for decompression, but its flammability requires that special handling be observed.:mean:
We can see that there are many different reasons that gases can be employed in diving situations, not all of them related solely to their inertness, but often for reasons of economic importance and availability.
__________________
Dr Deco
 

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