Which side does your safe 2nd come off of??

[Pembina]

When I was certified by NASDS in 1984 we were taught that your regulator comes around from the right and your safe 2nd & console comes around from the left.

This was for 2 reasons...

1st - if you loose your regulator and reach back to grab it, it is the only hose on the right side.

2nd - if your buddy needs to utilize your safe 2nd, you each hold the other with your right arm facing each other, the buddy reaches across and grabs the safe 2nd with his left hand and then both of you have your left hand free to operate the inflator hose.
This all made sense to me and we practiced several times in the pool.

Now our son-in-law just became PADI certified and they taught him that both regulators come off the right side leaving only the console coming from the left.

This does not seem right

1st - if you loose your regulator and you reach around you have 2 hoses to choose from. If you first grab the safe 2nd and strip it down you find it attached to your BC and you just lost valuable seconds and have to try again.

2nd - If you are facing each other and your buddy attempts to use the safe 2nd, it is upside down when coming from the right side. The only way it is not upside down is if he is in front of you with his back to you or he is to your left and the hose is draped across the front of you.

What am I missing?? Why have the rules changed?? Which side do you have your safe 2nd on??

 

[k ellis]

Quiet honestly I think its more of personal prefrence. I would say its best to just do a buddy check before diving to know where it is on their person for emergencies.

 

[irishsquid]

Quiet honestly I think its more of personal prefrence. I would say its best to just do a buddy check before diving to know where it is on their person for emergencies.

Great answer and safe too!

 

[NorthWoodsDiver]

My OW class taught both off the right. the SPG (console) and the bc inflater come off the left.

It makes sense from the standpoint of equipment familiarity if/when you move on to doubles where your second stages go over the right shoulder.

The left side of a diver is a busy place, maybe not at first but as you progress it gets that way.

I dont use an octo/safe second though, in favor of a pony or better yet doubles where in either case a second stage never goes over my left.

its personal preference but from what I have seen most people prefer the right.

 

[Bappelt]

When I was certified by NASDS in 1984 we were taught that your regulator comes around from the right and your safe 2nd & console comes around from the left.

This was for 2 reasons...

1st - if you loose your regulator and reach back to grab it, it is the only hose on the right side.

2nd - if your buddy needs to utilize your safe 2nd, you each hold the other with your right arm facing each other, the buddy reaches across and grabs the safe 2nd with his left hand and then both of you have your left hand free to operate the inflator hose.
This all made sense to me and we practiced several times in the pool.

This was the same way I was trained and it makes good sense to me too especially since when you present your safe second it is presented automatically in an upright position. However, I've since learned that my certifying LDS was unique in the way they taught this and everyone always questions my set up. It has also caused some issues now that I'm training at another LDS and they don't follow that method. They teach donating the primary and now my safe second is upside down for my use.

BTW my certifying LDS was originally and NASDS shop.

 

[rstofer]

If you take a standard regulator and route it around the left, it will be upside down for your use but it will be rightside up for your buddy and there won't need to be a S bend in the hose.

If you hand off your octo from the right side, you need to put an S bend in the hose to get it rightside up for your buddy - the hose must come from HIS right on a standard regulator. If he is facing you, that requires the S bend.

The modern thinking is to use a long hose on YOUR primary and you hand that off to your buddy. Your octo is connected to a necklace and hangs below your chin. You don't need to find it, it's always where it belongs.

Of course, there is an oldtime method as well and it is equipment specific: use Oceanic Omega II regulators! There is no rightside up versus upside down confusion. Same with the old Teknas. Side exhaust makes all the difference.

I have only seem octos on the right and Air II (inflator) devices on the left. In this case, you grab the Air II and your buddy gets your primary (with the S bend in the hose).

Richard

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

Probably just a matter of personal preference, and making sure your buddy knows your configuration and vice versa, and hopefully practicing air sharing.... that said, I think finding EITHER reg would be a good thing if you'd lost your primary.... your secondary should be easily available how ever you choose to rig it. I'm not sure why it would be an issue to find the secondary rather than the primary....

In my case, I'm using a bungied backup under my chin and donate the reg in my mouth (5' hose).

 

[JMcD]

I saw a configuration like this for the first time a few months ago and had a good opportunity to discuss the relative merits with the individual. They were also originally an NASDS diver; however I wouldn't suggest that equipment configuration is necessarily aligned with any given agency. Overall, I'd say I liked the configuration and for those who teach donating the Safe Second (Alternate 2nd stage, octo... ) it does make a great deal of sense since as has been pointed out the hose is straight when donated.

However, I believe that what your Son-in-Law has seen is the most common configuration (No flames please - just an observation that in my experience and travels both second stages are on the right in most people's configurations and most rental kits - I'm not saying it is right, better, or anything else... just appears to be the most common.)

I'd suggest that if I lost my reg and reached back and got my safe second, I would breath it while looking for my primary to replace it...

For donating, as has been pointed out, the safe second is provided to the OOA buddy with an "s" curve in the hose. Essentially you take it in your hand and place it exhaust down to your buddy. Many instructors will teach to donate the primary and take the safe second for yourself and, of course, if someone had an "air II" type second regulator they would have to donate the primary as the second is now incorporated into the inflator hose of the BC that really isn't possible for a buddy to use... and not to be left out, a long hose configuration would always donate the primary reghulator on a long hose since their safe second is on a bungee cord around the kneck...

All that to say that if you are diving with an unfamiliar buddy, you will definitly want to have the discussion as to what he/she would expect to do if you approached him/her with an OOA signal - there is no standardization exactly and while many on this board will suggest strongly that there should be - and their configuration is "right" - the challenge is that it seems not everyone obviously agrees with what is "right".

Your son-in-law has not been misled and has likely seen the most common configuration of gear in use today. As to the value of the different options, each has some benefits... for example any hose on my right will lead to air - and if I need to donate - the only hose remaining on my right will lead to air... no confusion with hoses etc... not that it is a justification that it is correct, just one of the arguments...

This board holds many a thread on "this gear item should be like this..."... particularly in the more "technical" (I don't like that term) forums. I'm not 100% sold that it should be personal preference - it should be what works for the environment you are in... if your gear is configured differently, I'd suggest that when you dive with your son-in-law do an air share with him at the beginning in shallow water where you are both confortable - you don't want him, or you, dealing with a confusing(read unfamiliar) configuration if you really do need air is a hurry.

Good Diving...

 

[tgsmith]

So what's the big deal if you grab your octo instead of your primary? It's a regulator. It still delivers air, which is what you're looking for. Your priority in this situation is have have air, not to fuss about which prettier reg is in your mouth.

For most OW divers that do not practice constantly, have the octo on the right is good because your right side is not cluttered. Once you start practicing, obviously, things get a lot easier, but why complicate things for people who don't dive more than 1-2 vacations a year? Now the only thing next to their octopus is....nothing. Just the octopus, which is a critical piece of gear during a stressful situation. Depending on where you put your octopus, if you had it on your left, you could be instead grabbing your inflation hose or console/gauge.

Again, if you practice though it's second nature. When I started using a long hose I was a mess, it's a decent skill to try and master. Now I don't think twice about it, especially after having gone through cave training.

Just for your awareness, since it's been a few years for you, there are other forms being used. As another member noted, there's the Air2 style octopuses. It's essentially a regulator/power inflation combo, which makes you very streamlined/uncluttered. You donate your regulator in your mouth then breath off the Air2. However, it has its drawbacks being if one piece fails you lose both your backup regulator AND your power inflation capability. It can also complicate actually sharing air while ascending, since most people are using too short a hose to actually donate their primary and not to mention you are now breathing off your inflator. OW divers are usually taught to use their inflator to release air upon ascent, so you've got to juggle that with breathing while in a stressful situation. So, it's nice for the casual diver when there's no emergency, but can be quite detrimental for those same casual divers when they actually have to share air.

Another form, as noted, is the long hose. It's been practiced by cave divers for YEARS now and is nothing new. What is new is that it's now being utilized by OW divers. You wear a 5-7 hose on your primary regulator. There are two methods for wearing it that I've seen:
1)It comes down your right side, is tucked into your waistbelt or routed under your light canister so it doesn't "halo" then comes across your chest, around the left side of your neck, around the back of your neck to the right side, and into the mouth. You then wear your backup bungeed just a few inches under your chin. In an emergency, you quickly donate your reg in your mouth and start breathing your backup. It works well for divers that practice horizontal trim like cave divers because it simply comes "unwound" off your body. For the majority of divers that use heads up trim, it's problematic in donating because you have to move your head and really manipulate to get it off.

2) Wear the backup the same way. However your primary 5-7ft hose is bungeed to the right side of your tanks. Advantage being you just pull it to donate it, and there's no clutter on your chest to get used to. Downside is you can't really stow it after donating, making practice annoying, and it can also get snagged on things even though it's bungeed. My cave instructor, Mike O'Leary, former international safety director and former President of the National Association of Cave Divers, wears his this way so pick your poison.

So, I figured after giving my two cents on the original question I'd fill you in on some of the other methods, in case you also weren't familiar with them. Welcome back to diving......the water has missed you!

 

[String]

Plenty of threads on this already if you do a search.

My personal preference if its not a long house/primary donate is octopus on the left hand side. That was its the correct way up for a buddy and doesnt need a further twist in the hose.

(my first choice is primary donate though).