When is a cave a cave?

[txapacheguy]

My wife and I are both Advanced Open Water divers, and are going to be diving at Vortex Springs in FL soon. I have read the warnings about cave diving, and believe that I adequately understand the dangers of this activity. I know that there is a difference between cave and cavern diving, and also realize that Open Water and Advanced Open Water Divers are not supposed to venture into overhead environments without additional training by most folks standards. My question pertains to where one draws the line in the sand as to when one must receive additional training for caverns, and what the limits of that training are. How stupid would two conventionally equipped AOW divers would be to venture several yards into a cavern such as the one in Vortex Springs??? I would never consider taking myself, or my wife into a cave without proper training and equipment, but would like to do a bit of sightseeing in what I believe to be a relatively safe environment. I have my nomex underwear on in preparation for the obligatory flaming, as I am somewhat new to this board in particular and the diving community in general, but I also appreciate everyone's opinions and expect to probably see replies to both extremes on this issue...

 

[Docc]

 

[LiteHedded]

the short answer is a cave is always a cave.
drawing these fuzzy distinctions is what gets untrained divers in trouble

 

[RJP]

How stupid would two conventionally equipped AOW divers would be to venture several yards into a cavern such as the one in Vortex Springs???

Go for it! I mean, hell, what could go wrong?

 

[Pearldiver07]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you can't see the light from the entrance, it's no longer a cavern.

But also, don't underestimate the danger of a cavern either.

You'll find many, if not most, of cave/cavern fatalities are those who think they've got experience enough to go in, when they aren't aware that a VERY unique set of skills and controlled exposure to these environments is an ABSOLUTE necessity unless you want to be a news item at 11:00.

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you can't see the light from the entrance, it's no longer a cavern.

But also, don't underestimate the danger of a cavern either.

You'll find many, if not most, of cave/cavern fatalities are those who think they've got experience enough to go in, when they aren't aware that a VERY unique set of skills and controlled exposure to these environments is an ABSOLUTE necessity unless you want to be a news item at 11:00.

You would be wrong by standards. They go by feet of penetration so you could be in the cave zone in some systems and still see the daylight zone. The rest is great advice. But im going with Docc on this one

 

[BabyDuck]

there are *never* any guarantees.

but there are swim-throughs (even the school buses in a quarry!) and tourist caverns like vortex & ginnie ballroom and planned wrecks with lots of the wiring & stuff cleaned out and hold doors taken off, etc.

the very wisest course, the absolute safest thing, is not to go near any of them without class. there have absolutely been deaths in these 'easy' tourist caverns. but lots and lots of folks do it and don't die, too. my personal opinion is while it's not harmless, the risks are very small.

you could fall off the side of a mountain on a groomed trail, too. a loved family pet could bite you. a watched fire to burn leaves could burn your car.

i won't beg you to, but if you accept the risk, i won't try to talk you out of it, either.

 

[Crush]

Two answers, depending on your willingness to endanger yourself and/or others:

1. If you don't care too much about endangering yourself and possibly other trained divers who have just penetrated the cave (e.g., by silting up the area, possibly dislodging their lines with poor bouyancy, etc), GO FOR IT. As a minimal safety precaution, don't take any lights with you and go only as far in as you can see without artificial illumination;
2. Get trained by the National Assn of Cave Diving (NACD) first.

 

[Walter]

The most common definition is you are in a cave if you lose natural light or are 100 or more linear feet from the surface. A cavern can become a cave in a silt out.

 

[walke121]

I've been to the gate at Vortex numerous times. If memory serves me right it is a few hundred foot swim and is lighted the whole way. I think the depth is around 90ft there. There is a gate that is locked and you have to be a cave diver and get it from the dive shop to go any further. There is a sign a few yards into the passage that does warn divers of the risks involved. I'm not saying you should go or shouldn't go I am just giving you some info. Good diving and be safe.