DIR- Generic When do you learn back swimming in GUE?

[LordHavoc]

I am thinking of taking GUE Fundamental course mostly with Meredith. I have good buoyancy. I am stable in the water and I do basic 6 which is what UTD teaches. Very overlapping with GUE Basic 5. I am having trouble with back kick. I would like some GUE instructors or divers tell me at what level does GUE demand their students to do reverse swim? Do you need to know back swimming to become a tech pass? Or can you go into Tech 1 without back swimming? Some people tell me you can become a GUE tech pass without back kicking but you must do it to pass Tech 1. Other people tell me you can not even get into Tech 1 course if you can not back swim?

Can GUE certified divers say when they learnt their backward swimming skill?

 

[Still Kicking]

It was covered in fundamentals (back when it was a "workshop" ... pre pass/fail). It didn't really come up in my tech 1 class one way or another.

I wouldn't stress about it. It's not that hard once you get the idea.

 

[digitalMechanic]

The reverse kick is taught in the fundamentals course on the first or second day. If you aim for a tech pass you have to do it properly. Here is the definition in the GUE standards

Demonstrate proficiency in four propulsion techniques that would be appropriate in delicate and/or silty environments, including competence in the backward kick and helicopter turns.

For a rec pass you only need to

Demonstrate three propulsion techniques, including comprehension of the components necessary for a successful backward kick.

I purposefully quoted this from the GUE standards document, because it is a bit vague, and I think every instructor can interpret this a bit differently.

That being said, you should not worry about this when taking the course. You take the course to learn, not to show that you already know everything. GUE instructors, and Mer in particular from what I've heard, are an amazing bunch, and will help you with anything you struggle with.

 

[YahiaAhmed]

Hello there, Yehia here, a GUE cave 1 diver. I am happy to answer your question.

You will learn all propulsion techniques including backward kick in GUE fundies. Depending on your performance you will be awarded with recreational pass or tech pass.

To get the recreational pass you have to demonstrate three propulsion techniques, including comprehension of the components necessary for a successful backward kick. In other words, you have to know how to initiate the backward kick, but not necessarily do it completely correct. However for tech pass you must demonstrate proficiency in four propulsion techniques that would be appropriate in delicate and/or silty environments, including competence in the backward kick and helicopter turns.

I'd say go for the course, and don't really worry about it. You are doing the course to learn and get better, and its a four days course, you will be practicing all kicks during the first 2-3 days over and over.

For the Tech 1 course, you will not be learning kicks as much as you will work your way to get better at them, and of course your instructor you will help you out along the way to tweak things here and this, but Tech 1 course focuses more on decompression theory and practice using trimix. As long as you have Fundies with Tech pass you will be able to enroll for Tech 1.

For full list of skills required to get Recreational or tech pass you can read there here in page 2 and 3

https://www.gue.com/files/standards9/Fundamentals-Standards-v9.2.pdf

 

[mer]

Between @digitalMechanic and @YahiaAhmed you've gotten good answers.

And I want to add one thing. For best success (read: least stress, most learning, most fun) in Cave 1 or Tech 1, you should have the back kick be something you are able to use for positioning while doing something else and without it requiring a whole lot of front-of-mind thought. If you can only do a back kick as a separate "skill" yur gonna have a bad time in Tech 1 or Cave 1.

I'd put propulsion (including back kick) in the same category with buoyancy, trim, drysuit adjustment, reaching valves, stability and staying in one place as things you should have mastered before starting Cave 1 or Tech 1. I use the word mastery very purposefully... meaning that you're able to do these things without a whole lot of conscious effort, just like you don't have to think too hard to breathe through a regulator. For the Fundamentals-technical rating, you don't NEED mastery level at these skills I mention yet... getting that EXPERIENCE and REPETITION once you've demonstrated you know HOW to do the skill at Fundies-tech is your homework as you prepare for Cave 1 or Tech 1, because in those classes, you'll be using these skills while doing something new and often fairly task loading.

To emphasize one point, you don't need to know how to back kick to take Fundamentals. That's where you're taught the kick, usually introducted on dive 1, and your instructor will help break it down into learnable chunks and troubleshoot any difficulties you have with the kick.

 

[LordHavoc]

Between @digitalMechanic and @YahiaAhmed you've gotten good answers.

And I want to add one thing. For best success (read: least stress, most learning, most fun) in Cave 1 or Tech 1, you should have the back kick be something you are able to use for positioning while doing something else and without it requiring a whole lot of front-of-mind thought. If you can only do a back kick as a separate "skill" yur gonna have a bad time in Tech 1 or Cave 1.

I'd put propulsion (including back kick) in the same category with buoyancy, trim, drysuit adjustment, reaching valves, stability and staying in one place as things you should have mastered before starting Cave 1 or Tech 1. I use the word mastery very purposefully... meaning that you're able to do these things without a whole lot of conscious effort, just like you don't have to think too hard to breathe through a regulator. For the Fundamentals-technical rating, you don't NEED mastery level at these skills I mention yet... getting that EXPERIENCE and REPETITION once you've demonstrated you know HOW to do the skill at Fundies-tech is your homework as you prepare for Cave 1 or Tech 1, because in those classes, you'll be using these skills while doing something new and often fairly task loading.

To emphasize one point, you don't need to know how to back kick to take Fundamentals. That's where you're taught the kick, usually introducted on dive 1, and your instructor will help break it down into learnable chunks and troubleshoot any difficulties you have with the kick.

Hello Mer! So delighted to see you here. Many thanks for this explanation. I will contact you to discuss details to meet in 2023.

Also wanted to say thanks to everyone who explained. Your answers were very helpful.

 

[JustinLoos1985]

I am thinking of taking GUE Fundamental course mostly with Meredith. I have good buoyancy. I am stable in the water and I do basic 6 which is what UTD teaches. Very overlapping with GUE Basic 5. I am having trouble with back kick. I would like some GUE instructors or divers tell me at what level does GUE demand their students to do reverse swim? Do you need to know back swimming to become a tech pass? Or can you go into Tech 1 without back swimming? Some people tell me you can become a GUE tech pass without back kicking but you must do it to pass Tech 1. Other people tell me you can not even get into Tech 1 course if you can not back swim?

Can GUE certified divers say when they learnt their backward swimming skill?

UTD teaches a back kick too