When are you ready to learn diving?

[Schwob]

And when are you not?

My son and I are diving. My wife and daughter are not. Between us we seem to agree that my daughter will take to it like a fish to water once she finds time to.
There may be an opportunity for a family trip...

But, my wife is a life long waterphobic who recently started to work on that again (after a long pause...) We understand the requirements (float this long, swim this far...) that seem to vary a bit from Agency to Agency (with time limit for the swim or w/o, with wetsuit (= flotation aid) or without... how long, how far, skin dive or not...) and from what I can tell from instructor to instructor. Some are all about "wink wink". Some are dead serious. Some mean well and bend the rules a little to give a person eager to get there a chance (like allowing fins for the swim), but then doake sure the student indeed does get there Seen it all. Not trying to preach or teach or change the way the business is done.

Hoping to ideally find:
- An accommodating warm water with high visibility location and close to no current shore diving... for easy learning without a boat at first. ... and diving for the divers...
- competent and accommodating instructor that is however not accomodating to the point of not getting the teaching / learning to actually occur. Accomodating to teach and lead my wife to becoming a safe diver, not accomodating to the extend of getting her to be a certified time bomb (seen that).
- a way for instructor and wife and me to determine whether she is ready to do that before we drive or pay for flights etc.

What I am worried about:
- my wife turning out like one of my friends who even now as an AOW is firmly believing that her safety is the responsibility of the DM and not hers as she always dives on DM guided dives and always angles to pair up with DM and then she does not have to worry... - an accident waiting to happen...
- a hard nosed instructor, maybe GUE like, which in principle actually would be great, but my wife is nowhere near ready for that level of prerequisites and the aim is to get her there ... if she is "getable there" ... not to scare her away. Not sure how to walk that line. Guilty of having crossed it many years ago... with my wife ending up spinning like spinner bait around the trailing line of a snorkel boat in a pretty good current, hanging on (in her mind) for dear life...
- Just not being sure about when - if ever - it is time to try, even if it takes a little extra class time.
So:
- I am not looking for the instructor that is great at teaching the naturals. Looking for one that is good teaching the timid...

 

[The Chairman]

I can't remember Duke's username, I know he's a DA or Assistant DA in Chi town area. @cardzard or @ROXANNE can probably clue him into this thread. His wife had the same issue. We met on vacation in Bonaire and she had tried once or twice, but couldn't get past the mask. She wanted to, but she couldn't. So, for a few days, Judy and I spent an hour or two in the pool. I was a fairly new instructor at the time, and it was interesting for me to figure this out. I can't remember what the turning point was, but on the last day, she wanted to scuba in the ocean and not just the pool. Where we were at, it was easy enough to walk in and easy enough to exit, so sure! Why not? I'll just keep her shallow. Judy wanted to hold my hand as we waded into the surf... and it was a death grip. I remember asking if she was SURE she was ready, and she was determined. Sure it was a brief dive, and I adjusted her BC for her, but she loved it. My fingers never recovered from her death grip, but she did it and said she had fun. The next time I saw her, she was a diver. Wow. All I did was to teach her how to deal with a flooded mask and breathe underwater without one. She did all the hard stuff.

So, be prepared for this to take more than one attempt. Slow is good. Students should be coaxed gently: not pushed. The Keys fits a lot of what you're looking for: except for the shore diving. We have some, but the vis isn't all that good. I like it like that as it gives a bit of stress to a super easy dive. Lots of juvenile fish to see there and there's even a recreated wreck in about 6 foot of water.

 

[TMHeimer]

It's good to read about someone overcoming a lot and becoming a good if not great diver. I can't add anything to what The Chairman said, except that I have seen students who were quite to very uncomfortable in water. Ei., can't swim at all or could barely make progress swimming without any proper stroke. My question is how bad is your wife's "waterphobia"? It may be that a lot of time doing anything in water--and then in water too deep to stand in-- is the best idea before signing up for scuba. But I don't know her.

 

[Pullmyfinger]

The mask skills are a mental obstacle to overcome for many students.
My wife really struggled with this aspect of her OW class and almost quit because of it.
We were on vacation at the time and had plenty of time. She took a break for a couple of days to decide if she wanted to continue.
I still laugh about this.....but during the two day break, another student announced that he wasn't comfortable with diving and wasn't going to finish his OW class.
My wife decided that SHE was going to continue no matter what.
Motivation is a funny thing.

She was back in the water the next day.

It took a lot of dives and pool practice after getting certified for her to get dialed in and truly comfortable, but she stuck with it and really fell in love with diving.

She is mostly interested in warm water diving and looking for turtles and nudibranchs (umiushi in Japanese).

These days she is usually asking me to go diving, which is great.
We are headed to Japan for work for awhile. She won't dive there because it's cold.
But as long as the water is warm and clear, she is all about diving. She is about to hit her 50th dive, and has fallen in love with it.

As she puts it.... "I don't care about cold water, bad visibility, or whatever you GUE nerds do. I just want to see turtles and umiushi."

When diving with her, I'm a turtle tour guide.

Regarding getting people comfortable in the water, try snorkling. Find something that's cool to see, and just get them to enjoy the sensation of being in the water. You never know when things are going to click with people, and when they might fall in love with the experience of diving.

 

[NYCNaiad]

I know a woman who was so frightened of water on her face that she couldn't even shower without having a towel near by to dry her face off immediately after getting it wet. She just became a diver after working through her fear on land & in a pool first.

And I think that's the key. It's easy for even seasoned divers to become panicked under the right circumstances, but taking someone who is already fearful of the water & having them try to learn to dive on top of that is an accident waiting to happen. Far better for her to work on her phobia first.

My mom's a clinical psychologist. Generally, controlled/gentle/gradual exposure to the fearful event can lessen it over time. (It's called exposure therapy.) A clinical psychologist who works with anxiety/phobias can help with this. There are also swimming instructors specifically for adults & adults with a fear of the water. Friends of friends have tried this successfully. This has really worked miracles. The best instructors seem to be those that work one-on-one with the adult.

It's better to wait to have your wife comfortable than force this with diving or even snorkeling...either of which could result in an accident or ingrain her fear even more.

 

[Schwob]

I can't remember Duke's username, I know he's a DA or Assistant DA in Chi town area. @cardzard or @ROXANNE can probably clue him into this thread. His wife had the same issue. We met on vacation in Bonaire and she had tried once or twice, but couldn't get past the mask. She wanted to, but she couldn't. So, for a few days, Judy and I spent an hour or two in the pool. I was a fairly new instructor at the time, and it was interesting for me to figure this out. I can't remember what the turning point was, but on the last day, she wanted to scuba in the ocean and not just the pool. Where we were at, it was easy enough to walk in and easy enough to exit, so sure! Why not? I'll just keep her shallow. Judy wanted to hold my hand as we waded into the surf... and it was a death grip. I remember asking if she was SURE she was ready, and she was determined. Sure it was a brief dive, and I adjusted her BC for her, but she loved it. My fingers never recovered from her death grip, but she did it and said she had fun. The next time I saw her, she was a diver. Wow. All I did was to teach her how to deal with a flooded mask and breathe underwater without one. She did all the hard stuff.

So, be prepared for this to take more than one attempt. Slow is good. Students should be coaxed gently: not pushed. The Keys fits a lot of what you're looking for: except for the shore diving. We have some, but the vis isn't all that good. I like it like that as it gives a bit of stress to a super easy dive. Lots of juvenile fish to see there and there's even a recreated wreck in about 6 foot of water.

Thanks.
I know the grip...
After (talking years) my wife got over her phase of complete Bezerkerdom when she realized she was in water too deep to stand in, that's how we snorkeled. Based on what I see from the pool (not deep enough to be sure it holds up). She may be beyond "the grip" soon... No below water mask clearing yet... (doable w/o but actually easier with tank and a little more depth than snorkel depth...)
...
Bonaire would be great if she goes with it. A bit not so great if she threw the towel for good on day one in terms of stuff to do...but there I think she won't. Florida, boats, wrong time around a weather window or tide currents, she'll turn green and she fore sure won't fin well into a current yet. I can keep up in breaststroke (no fins) with her finning for a couple of laps in the pool, even so I don't swim that well.
So I know I want to be sure that at least initially it's all low current.
One of the "diver turner outer facilities on Bonaire", with instructors there for a year would be just fine for my daughter... not necessarily for my wife unless she has a lucky draw von the instructor... but then the time pressed class could be just too time pressed for her...
...
I may even have met an Instructor in Chicagoland yesterday that might be the right personality... but not independent .... and yes, the colder water and visibility here would be added challenge and added demotivation....
...
It's funny some one, meaning well (also yesterday), suggested to bring her snorkeling in the quarry, where visibility on the shallow side is about half the depth... That would not be the most inspiring snorkel I could think off.
I even thought of going to the scuba board thing in Bonaire next year with her.... but that sort of thing - I think - needs to wait until she's ready and certified... If everybody is having that much fun and "portrays that much confidence" I am worried she'll be way to anxious... and feeling way out of place...
But that would be fun... some day...
...
So, Florida... how dumb is it to go to Florida in August? Sort of hot and sticky I presume... so much, ... "rumor" has it a certain guy contemplates on extra rooftop AC for the scuba van....
So pretty dumb time of the year to visit?

 

[Schwob]

... It's better to wait to have your wife comfortable than force this causing a potential accident or ingraining her fear even more.

Agree with your whole post and the above excerpt. Over the years I notice that when she works on it, it does get better. Right now she is working on it. A real swim coach would be great... and I know one of one would be best because three years ago or so she did an adult group class... where just as luck would have it she was the best swimmer by far, barely managing one 25 yard lane... She ended up not getting much better and disillusioned about taking a class....
...
Anyway, she started working on it again...
We may still need to get swim training help. Or she may get there this time
TBD...
(a bit scary that I do this asking here and not here... isn't it...)
Assuming she gets there...:

Is "there" really being able to swim 300 yards or whatever the number was with no or a really long time limit... possibly in a pool shallow enough to stand in?
If I was a scuba instructor I'd feel more comfortable if this was shown in deeper water...
But a good nurturing instructor, I am sure could build on that minimal foundation while encouraging improvements along the way ... in a wonderfully motivating synergy (hey, hubby can dream...)
...
But a scuba puppy mill .... not sure if she'd make it or be broken...
...
So while working on "getting there", we are also trying to determine where "there" is.
At heart I really want there to be somewhere like "swim a half a mile and free dive one pool length and swim-pull a guy twice your size (me) 200 yards ..." or such...
I know she wI'll not even try if she thought that's where "there" is...
Anyway, I digress...
Thinking "there" could be pretty close if we find the right combo of conditions and instructor to get her - safely - started and that would motivate her... (I sure remember how exited she got about the fishes when snorkeling... hand in hand...)

 

[Bubblesong]

I am hoping for ideas about getting my 20 year old son interested enough to study diving. He is not timid or scared, but he recognised that it is a lot to learn, and hasn't stepped up yet. Since he is studying robotics, I am looking a what kind of Underwater robot kits are available that he build and then can snorkel with.

 

[Schwob]

It's good to read about someone overcoming a lot and becoming a good if not great diver. I can't add anything to what The Chairman said, except that I have seen students who were quite to very uncomfortable in water. Ei., can't swim at all or could barely make progress swimming without any proper stroke. My question is how bad is your wife's "waterphobia"? It may be that a lot of time doing anything in water--and then in water too deep to stand in-- is the best idea before signing up for scuba. But I don't know her.

Working on it...
Getting close...
Swimming w/o fins sucks. Epicly slow and inefficient, with enough time she can make some distance. Could not posdibly pull anyone.
She can float.
...
With fins... she does bether of course..and way more comfortable now than w/o.
Everything is clumsy... like standing up...

Need to verify in a deeper pool first so... or a lake when it's a bit warmer...

Trying to find out the right size of the target so to speak... in that sense: if she had to climb K2 in a month, she has no business at all trying... but we are talking OW, not cave diving 3 or such... so if she had to go on a hike on narrow path with steep terrain left and right (where you cannot afford to panic) in a month... she is close... if the hike is with nice company... but not if the hike is with people trying to trip her instead of showing her how to improve further...
Stupid analogy... not considering the whole UW thing...
Not sure that helps

 

[Schwob]

The mask skills are a mental obstacle to overcome for many students.
My wife really struggled with this aspect of her OW class and almost quit because of it.
We were on vacation at the time and had plenty of time. She took a break for a couple of days to decide if she wanted to continue.
I still laugh about this.....but during the two day break, a Chinese guy announced that he wasn't comfortable with diving and wasn't going to finish his OW class.
My wife, being Japanese, decided that SHE was going to continue no matter what.
Motivation is a funny thing.

She was back in the water the next day.

It took a lot of dives and pool practice after getting certified for her to get dialed in and truly comfortable, but she stuck with it and really fell in love with diving.

She is mostly interested in warm water diving and looking for turtles and nudibranchs (umiushi in Japanese).

These days she is usually asking me to go diving, which is great.
We are headed to Japan for work for awhile. She won't dive there because it's cold.
But as long as the water is warm and clear, she is all about diving. She is about to hit her 50th dive, and has fallen in love with it.

As she puts it.... "I don't care about cold water, bad visibility, or whatever you GUE nerds do. I just want to see turtles and umiushi."

When diving with her, I'm a turtle tour guide.

Regarding getting people comfortable in the water, try snorkling. Find something that's cool to see, and just get them to enjoy the sensation of being in the water. You never know when things are going to click with people, and when they might fall in love with the experience of diving.

...
F U N N Y !!!
I so know that mechanism at work here. My wife is Chinese... although some of her/our friends are Japanese... but I know exactly what got your wife going...
And all the other stuff too seeing the life down there will grab her. I know it...
Getting there is the trick...
20 some years ago when she still could just not be in water to deep to stand she did one of those hotel pool scuba things (just dive a little, no mask clearing drills) and loved it and declared it vastly simpler than snorkling because she did not have to worry about staying above water...
But she could not have taken a class then as she then just could not be in deeper water.... and then kids and work and all that...
...
But now... now it's close...
I guess I need to find a Japanese person telling her how fun and simple Scuba is, except maybe it's hard for her, not being Japanese... maybe that will get her into turbo gear... (for all those not understanding... I am kidding and if you are in that kind of a relationship for decades, that is funny... no racism at work here in the pun... in the underlying dynamics... well that could be discussed...)